Ah yes, but it's the less intelligent ones of us that make the mistakes for you!Originally Posted by MedicineMan
Ah yes, but it's the less intelligent ones of us that make the mistakes for you!
Last edited by wisenber; 02-11-2013 at 18:09.
Glad you all are OK. I've been watching this thread and hoping you all would be safe, glad you were. Scary situation, but it sounds like it was handled well, and everyone there reacted appropriately. This reinforces the need to avoid hiking alone in those conditions.
Wisenber, I made the same mistake--trying to get by with less, so I didn't have to carry it. I definitely regretted that decision. In my case, it was the lack of more base layers to change into. If I'd had that, I think I would have been OK at Mt. Rogers. Hitting the best balance in weight vs safety is a difficult thing to do. I learned for the next time to just go ahead and carry the bigger, heavier pack.
It was really interesting to see the parallels in our experiences. I still get chills thinking about how absolutely impaired I was, being totally unable to do "simple" things like heating something to drink. In the end, though, like your room-service cocoa, my Hickery-brewed coffee was the magic potion that brought me back.
Thank you all for sharing your experience. This is a learning opportunity for everyone here, and hopefully someone's life may be saved because of it.
--Scott <><
"I fish because I love to; because I love the environs where trout are found, which are invariably beautiful... because, in a world where most men seem to spend their lives doing things they hate, my fishing is at once an endless source of delight and an act of small rebellion; because trout do not lie or cheat and cannot be bought or bribed or impressed by power, but respond only to quietude and humility and endless patience...." --Robert Traver
The sad part is packing another 20 ounces would have made the difference for me. Windchill while in my hammock enclosed in a sock did not have a huge impact. However, standing around in it (even on a sunny morning) did.Glad you all are OK. I've been watching this thread and hoping you all would be safe, glad you were. Scary situation, but it sounds like it was handled well, and everyone there reacted appropriately. This reinforces the need to avoid hiking alone in those conditions.
Wisenber, I made the same mistake--trying to get by with less, so I didn't have to carry it. I definitely regretted that decision. In my case, it was the lack of more base layers to change into. If I'd had that, I think I would have been OK at Mt. Rogers. Hitting the best balance in weight vs safety is a difficult thing to do. I learned for the next time to just go ahead and carry the bigger, heavier pack.
It was really interesting to see the parallels in our experiences. I still get chills thinking about how absolutely impaired I was, being totally unable to do "simple" things like heating something to drink. In the end, though, like your room-service cocoa, my Hickery-brewed coffee was the magic potion that brought me back.
Thank you all for sharing your experience. This is a learning opportunity for everyone here, and hopefully someone's life may be saved because of it.
The forecast was right on the 3-4 season bubble, and I packed for 3+ season. The problem is that it actually became 4 season weather.
After my last couple of trips, I believe I'll look at getting some more vapor barrier layers. I had really good success with using a VB shirt on a an icy night hike with stream crossings in the Smokies several weeks back. While it does not provide a lot of "heat", it certainly keeps you from losing what heat you do have. It also prevents sweating out and compromising base layers from carrying a heavy pack up a steep grade.
For me my hiking boots were good but after standing around camp for an hour my feet did get cold. I could have used some kind of insulated camp boot.
I agree and we were generating heat hiking and setting up the rigs.
I do believe the windchill was the contributing factor.
My Shelter and Clothing gearlist
Shelter
DIY M90 Hammock
Leighlo 15* UQ
Leighlo 15* TQ
WPB Sock made from Sil/Driducks/1.1 ripstop. I never felt the wind in the sock which contributed to me being very warm all night. I did not have to cinch the TQ around my shoulders which is normally my sign that I am reaching the limits of a TQ. I am positive that if I had been in a standard hammock/tarp combo my story would be different with the wind blowing so hard. The sock allowed the quilts to do their job.
Clothing
LW Marmot Power Dry undershirt
Columbia loose fit wicking layer
Midweight hooded fleece
LW Montane Windjacket
ECWCS Softshell Level V pants
Compression shorts
Smartwool Socks
Keen Winter Boots
Fleece fingerless gloves with mitten cover
Smartwool cap
All of the above were used during the hike and camp. On the night hike in I had to shed a layer (Montane Wind Jacket). Knees to top of boots only were covered by the softshell pants during the whole trip. Highly recommend the pants for cold weather.
Camp clothes
Marmot Precip Jacket
Montbell UL hooded down Jacket
Montbell Alpine Light Jacket (Also used as pillow)
Under Armour balaclava
These were added to the layers above as needed in camp. I did pay close attention and would add insulation when needed and remove if I felt hot to keep from sweating. The Marmot Precip Jacket and softshell pants kept the wind at bay and let the other insulation work.
Backup
Smartwool Longsleeve Midweight shirt
Smartwool HW 3/4 tights
extra fleece hat
I never used these but would always carry them at these temps
Other Items that worked well
Granite Gear Nimbus Core pack
Kahtoola Microspikes
Items I would rethink for next trip
Leave gravity filter and water bladder at home.Consider chemical treatment, Steripen, or pump filter. My gravity filter and water bladder worked but took too much effort to keep from freezing.
Consider a canister stove over alcohol. Quicker and hassle free. I think we could have had 2 canister stoves and extra fuel using the buddy system to pack it in. MM had one and it just seemed to have less hassle factor, bigger burner etc. Esbit would be a good backup. And before everybody starts defending alcohol stoves you need to know I have not carried a canister stove in probably 5 years.
Insulated camp shoes, Insulated camp shoes, Insulated camp shoes. I can tell you that it hurts when you get in the hammock and your feet start warming up
One other thing I did was carry lots of non cook high calorie food. I kept water and snicker bars in the hammock and would eat and drink a little in the hammock every few hours.
My takeaway is to not underestimate windchill. Not being able to use the shelter and not having a fire contributed also. Even if a fire had been possible, the effort trying to find dry wood near an AT shelter at night would not have been worth it. That time would have been better spent in the hammock staying warm.
Last but not least is always hike with people you know you can count on in conditions like this. I was fortunate to be with these people including Nuetron on the other end of the trail
Last edited by hangnout; 02-11-2013 at 22:24.
The canister stove was experimental on this trip. We had 4 ounces of alcohol/Gredeemeer/Cone as back up B and 4 Esbit for backup C.
We kept the canister protected at all times. Even if boiling a round we'd shelter the canister in the parka between burns.
I'd read the Windpro II conks out at 20F and I'd read success stories in the singles.
I'd give it thumbs up after this hike but this is a large stove in my opinion and is best
shared by at least another hiker and even more would be better. The pot we used held 6 cups which again in a shared setting would be positive-the pot had the thermal ring thing on the bottom and was very fast even in these temps. We never used the supplied windscreen-didn't need it in the shelter, and it worked fine the first night in the snow pit. I think it will be in the Gulf just to get some money out of it.
I need to show you my bonsaifilter! It was made especially for winter water treatment and it works great. I'll make a write-up on it one of these days, but there are several on the forums who can vouch for it...
I think that is right on. A fire is great, but if you have no protection from wind and precipitation, you are better off in the hammock. Save the energy for making a fire for when the weather clears.
I am going to have to check out that self-heating cocoa! Even if it got slightly warm, it's calories your body does not have to burn for heat. I was able to rehydrate overnight at Mt. Rogers with water that was still warm from home (insulated jug) and let me tell you it was certainly welcome!
You all should really consider contributing your experiences on the Hypothermia thread, to make that a comprehensive resource....
--Scott <><
"I fish because I love to; because I love the environs where trout are found, which are invariably beautiful... because, in a world where most men seem to spend their lives doing things they hate, my fishing is at once an endless source of delight and an act of small rebellion; because trout do not lie or cheat and cannot be bought or bribed or impressed by power, but respond only to quietude and humility and endless patience...." --Robert Traver
Looking forward to seeing the Bonsaifilter!
I am interested!Looking forward to seeing the Bonsaifilter!
"Go sell crazy somewhere else, we're all stocked up here"~Jack Nicholson/As Good As It Gets
No fair baiting us like rats. You must post at least a few pictures, description, and sources for materials by the weekend! There is a still lot of winter left.
No worries--I'll post something soon. It might not be until Sunday or Monday (busy week and I need to take photos) but I'll get it done. I've been meaning to show it off for the past year. I've given away close to a dozen, and the reviews have been good so far...
--Scott <><
"I fish because I love to; because I love the environs where trout are found, which are invariably beautiful... because, in a world where most men seem to spend their lives doing things they hate, my fishing is at once an endless source of delight and an act of small rebellion; because trout do not lie or cheat and cannot be bought or bribed or impressed by power, but respond only to quietude and humility and endless patience...." --Robert Traver
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