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  1. #1
    Senior Member BillyBob58's Avatar
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    test:12-16*,BMBH/MWUQ Great night

    Quick summary: warm and comfy on my back, legs and feet with the JRB BMBH and Mount Wash. UQ, and extra comfy all night on side and back. Below 16*, even with significant layers, need a bit more than the Golite quilt on top.

    I had one of the best, most comfortable cold weather nights ever in a hammock last night, and definitely the best one ever in my back yard. Over the last two years, most of my back yard testing attempts have been sabotaged by my inability to sleep. But maybe because I was so comfortable in addition to unusually warm, I fell asleep pretty quick and slept about 4 hours straight, then got back to sleep for a couple of more hours. Now that doesn't sound like much compared to the 12 hours I have been known to sleep on the trail. But in my back yard, I typically give up and go in at 2 or 3AM when it's obvious I am not going to sleep. I don't usually do all that good in developed camp grounds either.

    About 1030PM I put a hot water bottle in my hammock. I noticed that the underside of the tarp and outside of the UQ had a heavy layer of frost on them already. About 11pm I sacked it at about 22*F with a forecast for 15*. I accidentally got my jacket a little damp on the back by contacting the frost on the under side of the tarp, and caused it to "snow" a little into the hammoc as I knocked some frost loose. I had on a few layers top and bottom a balaclava and hood on my jacket. I pulled my Golite 20*( maybe just a touch optimistic rating, but close) quilt over me. I had PG booties and space blankets and pads handy, but used none of them. Apparently I was out pretty quick for me. But I realized after 15 to 30 minutes, and just before passing out, that I was very warm, and very aware of a nice warm sensation on my back. Though as I warmed things up with body heat, I would occasionally be aware of cold butt syndrome. But that went away pretty quick.

    I woke up about 330AM. I think probably because I was just barely cool, definitely no longer toasty warm. Though I think it was mostly top side coolness, but I'm not certain. I decided to get on my side and pull the quilt up over most of my head ( it's not long enough to completely cover my 6'1" frame, sadly, but will cover all but the very top). At this time I noticed that the top baffle( top several inches) of the quilt, the Pertex Endurance section, was quite wet from condensation from my breath. No matter, I quickly warmed up quite nicely and went back to sleep, feeling very comfortable in all positions during this night.

    I woke up again about 430AM. Once again aware of being just slightly cold. It felt like it might be top as well as bottom slight cold. I debated putting in a pad or my space blanket. Instead, I decided to get up and pee and get a warmer bag. Pretty soon I was back in with an old PG mummy NF bag rated at 5*F, but this time no hot water bottle. I got on my side, pulled the wonderful hood over my entire head and made a small breathing hole, and was instantly nice and warm. Then I decided to get on my back, which meant getting in the bag. ( the hood really interferes with quilt use with back sleeping, and I get a poor shoulder/neck seal). So I got in, zipped up and cinched the hood and neck collar. Luxurious warmth, top and back, off to sleep. Got up about 7AM, went in and made coffee. The official low was 16*F at a nearby weather station. My thermometer showed about 11 or 12*.

    My PG bag was also pretty wet at the area near chin contact, but that seemed irrelevant to warmth. ( a neck gator might have helped with condensation, but I did not use it). So with the 27 oz Mt.Washington UQ, I seemed good to go at near to 10*, for sure as low as 12-16*F. Once warm enough on top, I was just fine on my back, legs and feet, on my side or back. As I had been for the first 4 hours with the lighter quilt. This is a really good set up, and I think I could have gone a bit lower and been OK. I was impressed that I never had cold feet, even in the light quilt, and with just one layer of wool socks. And no matter how I rolled around, there were no cold spots- just some cool ones for a few minutes.

    But I might have been just a tad past the limits of my 20* Golite quilt, even with my several extra layers. Especially once I got things wet with my condensed breath. I wasn't bad cold, but I was sure on the edge. When I got the quilt inside, it looked like it had lost a good bit of loft in that small uppermost area that was obviously wet. It also weighed 3 ozs more than normal. I don't know if that is a lot. But my heavy PG bag handled things with ease, condensation or no condensation. Too bad it is heavy and bulky.
    For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory that is to be revealed to us....that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now.
    Romans 8:18,21-22

  2. #2
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    Sounds to me like you really, really need a JRB hood. Using that hood, I made it down to 20F the other night with a No Sniveler on top, an older Nest with the 1.5in baffles under the Hennessy, wearing a LS tee shirt, running tights and Smartwool sox. In other words, about half the down you were using, and I ain't no Neo. I tend to sleep maybe 5 to 10 degrees warmer than Feathered Friends sleeping bag ratings.

  3. #3
    Peter_pan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BillyBob58 View Post
    Quick summary: warm and comfy on my back, legs and feet with the JRB BMBH and Mount Wash. UQ, and extra comfy all night on side and back. Below 16*, even with significant layers, need a bit more than the Golite quilt on top.

    I had one of the best, most comfortable cold weather nights ever in a hammock last night, and definitely the best one ever in my back yard. Over the last two years, most of my back yard testing attempts have been sabotaged by my inability to sleep. But maybe because I was so comfortable in addition to unusually warm, I fell asleep pretty quick and slept about 4 hours straight, then got back to sleep for a couple of more hours. Now that doesn't sound like much compared to the 12 hours I have been known to sleep on the trail. But in my back yard, I typically give up and go in at 2 or 3AM when it's obvious I am not going to sleep. I don't usually do all that good in developed camp grounds either.

    About 1030PM I put a hot water bottle in my hammock. I noticed that the underside of the tarp and outside of the UQ had a heavy layer of frost on them already. About 11pm I sacked it at about 22*F with a forecast for 15*. I accidentally got my jacket a little damp on the back by contacting the frost on the under side of the tarp, and caused it to "snow" a little into the hammoc as I knocked some frost loose. I had on a few layers top and bottom a balaclava and hood on my jacket. I pulled my Golite 20*( maybe just a touch optimistic rating, but close) quilt over me. I had PG booties and space blankets and pads handy, but used none of them. Apparently I was out pretty quick for me. But I realized after 15 to 30 minutes, and just before passing out, that I was very warm, and very aware of a nice warm sensation on my back. Though as I warmed things up with body heat, I would occasionally be aware of cold butt syndrome. But that went away pretty quick.

    I woke up about 330AM. I think probably because I was just barely cool, definitely no longer toasty warm. Though I think it was mostly top side coolness, but I'm not certain. I decided to get on my side and pull the quilt up over most of my head ( it's not long enough to completely cover my 6'1" frame, sadly, but will cover all but the very top). At this time I noticed that the top baffle( top several inches) of the quilt, the Pertex Endurance section, was quite wet from condensation from my breath. No matter, I quickly warmed up quite nicely and went back to sleep, feeling very comfortable in all positions during this night.

    I woke up again about 430AM. Once again aware of being just slightly cold. It felt like it might be top as well as bottom slight cold. I debated putting in a pad or my space blanket. Instead, I decided to get up and pee and get a warmer bag. Pretty soon I was back in with an old PG mummy NF bag rated at 5*F, but this time no hot water bottle. I got on my side, pulled the wonderful hood over my entire head and made a small breathing hole, and was instantly nice and warm. Then I decided to get on my back, which meant getting in the bag. ( the hood really interferes with quilt use with back sleeping, and I get a poor shoulder/neck seal). So I got in, zipped up and cinched the hood and neck collar. Luxurious warmth, top and back, off to sleep. Got up about 7AM, went in and made coffee. The official low was 16*F at a nearby weather station. My thermometer showed about 11 or 12*.

    My PG bag was also pretty wet at the area near chin contact, but that seemed irrelevant to warmth. ( a neck gator might have helped with condensation, but I did not use it). So with the 27 oz Mt.Washington UQ, I seemed good to go at near to 10*, for sure as low as 12-16*F. Once warm enough on top, I was just fine on my back, legs and feet, on my side or back. As I had been for the first 4 hours with the lighter quilt. This is a really good set up, and I think I could have gone a bit lower and been OK. I was impressed that I never had cold feet, even in the light quilt, and with just one layer of wool socks. And no matter how I rolled around, there were no cold spots- just some cool ones for a few minutes.

    But I might have been just a tad past the limits of my 20* Golite quilt, even with my several extra layers. Especially once I got things wet with my condensed breath. I wasn't bad cold, but I was sure on the edge. When I got the quilt inside, it looked like it had lost a good bit of loft in that small uppermost area that was obviously wet. It also weighed 3 ozs more than normal. I don't know if that is a lot. But my heavy PG bag handled things with ease, condensation or no condensation. Too bad it is heavy and bulky.
    BB58,

    12-16* and now it is time to deal with top side insulation....Are we reaching a new level? Really does bring out the need for balanced approach.

    Pan
    Ounces to Grams.

    www.jacksrbetter.com ... Largest supplier of camping quilts and under quilts...Home of the Original Nest Under Quilt, and Bear Mountain Bridge Hammock. 800 595 0413

  4. #4
    all secure in sector 7 Shug's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BillyBob58 View Post
    I woke up about 330AM. I think probably because I was just barely cool, definitely no longer toasty warm. At this time I noticed that the top baffle( top several inches) of the quilt, the Pertex Endurance section, was quite wet from condensation from my breath.

    I woke up again about 430AM. Once again aware of being just slightly cold.

    My PG bag was also pretty wet at the area near chin contact, but that seemed irrelevant to warmth. ( a neck gator might have helped with condensation, but I did not use it).

    But I might have been just a tad past the limits of my 20* Golite quilt, even with my several extra layers. Especially once I got things wet with my condensed breath. I wasn't bad cold, but I was sure on the edge. When I got the quilt inside, it looked like it had lost a good bit of loft in that small uppermost area that was obviously wet. It also weighed 3 ozs more than normal. I don't know if that is a lot. But my heavy PG bag handled things with ease, condensation or no condensation. Too bad it is heavy and bulky.
    Nice report BB..... I feel in camping out more often than not I wake up 3AM-ish and have to adjust for warmth or heat. Just one of those things. My bag gets wet at the mouth area as does everyones I assume from breathing. Next thing to play with is a fleece "bib" type addition to flop out over the bag and hopefully receive that moisture and keep most off of the bag. In the works..... Since I do not have a quilt yet I too use a sleeping bag in quilt mode as you do.
    Carry on Sir and keep up the wonderful reports!
    Shug of the Soggy Chin
    Whooooo Buddy)))) All Good in the Backwood Hood.

    Shug's YouTube Videos

  5. #5
    Senior Member BillyBob58's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Take-a-knee View Post
    Sounds to me like you really, really need a JRB hood. Using that hood, I made it down to 20F the other night with a No Sniveler on top, an older Nest with the 1.5in baffles under the Hennessy, wearing a LS tee shirt, running tights and Smartwool sox. In other words, about half the down you were using, and I ain't no Neo. I tend to sleep maybe 5 to 10 degrees warmer than Feathered Friends sleeping bag ratings.
    Good point about that hood. But, it was 12*F, not 20*F. Plus, I started with a good thick layer of frost over the UQ, which might be a factor, and I was never really cold on bottom anyway. I was plenty warm top and bottom for the 1st 3 or 4 hours.

    I'm not sure how you figure "about half the down you were using", at least not on top which is where the cold finally became the problem, and even then it was never a severe problem. I had a Golite 21 oz quilt. This quilt is a little wider than the No Sniv, but I'm not sure it actually has quite as much loft. I think it is rated as much loft, but I don't think it quite makes it, where as the No Sniv has more than rated loft, I have heard.

    But I did have more layers than you, and a better hood would have helped for sure. I actually have a very thick Marmot hood, but I did not bother with it for this test. This was primarily meant as a test of the BMBH/MWUQ, which I think was a solid success. But I decided I would try and push the limits of my top quilt also. I definitely could have made it, and I have been much colder, but I would not call it actually warm, and actually a little cool. Particularly after I got the layer that tucked around my neck area wet.

    But that JRB hood or my Marmot hood might have made the dif! I am impressed that you were toasty at 20*F with an older Nest! Wow! Now I did have way more down underneath than that. So that is impressive, and hood and somewhat warmer No Sniv might have made the dif!
    For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory that is to be revealed to us....that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now.
    Romans 8:18,21-22

  6. #6
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    BB, I must confess I awoke at dawn, not from the cold, but from road noise. I was feeling comfortably cool, and it was from below, not a show stopper but that tells me how low I can sleep with the 3-season set before adding clothing. I am 100% totally sold on that JRB hood, in fact, that velcro kit they offer with it to mod your vest to accept the hood should be a part of every quilt users' kit, IMO. I've not really had any draft problems or felt cold around my neck just wearing the hood but attaching it to a vest would make it even more efficient, I believe. So, in warmer weather a watch cap and the No Sniveler is all you need, if you think it might get near what your min comfortable sleeping temp is, pack the vest/hood combo.

    I said what I did referring to the amount of down 'cause the Mt Washington quilt has the same loft as my top quilt and the Nest.

  7. #7
    Senior Member BillyBob58's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Take-a-knee View Post
    BB, I must confess I awoke at dawn, not from the cold, but from road noise. I was feeling comfortably cool, and it was from below, not a show stopper but that tells me how low I can sleep with the 3-season set before adding clothing. I am 100% totally sold on that JRB hood, in fact, that velcro kit they offer with it to mod your vest to accept the hood should be a part of every quilt users' kit, IMO. I've not really had any draft problems or felt cold around my neck just wearing the hood but attaching it to a vest would make it even more efficient, I believe. So, in warmer weather a watch cap and the No Sniveler is all you need, if you think it might get near what your min comfortable sleeping temp is, pack the vest/hood combo.

    I said what I did referring to the amount of down 'cause the Mt Washington quilt has the same loft as my top quilt and the Nest.
    Thanks for the info, TAK. You mention the Velcro kit- so that attaches to the UQ? How does that work when you go to side sleeping? Can you still manage to keep the quilts bottom opening down below you?



    I have actually been thinking about that post, and intending to post another question regarding it. ( Does this count as hijacking my own thread? ) And the question is: I know you ain't no Neo, but is 20*F, with nothing else under your back- not even a PG bag's bottom half- typical for an older Nest with just 1.5" loft or a tad more?

    I think you being "comfortably cool" does indeed set the lower limit for you with that set up. But what about other 1.5" Nest users out there- all by itself- do you find that about right, 20*F?

    I have now done 10*F or very close to 10*F with two down products- the PeaPod plus space blanket, and the MWUQ all by itself. Only 12*F with MW, but I think I could have gone a few degrees, especially once I got warmer on top. Plus, I think it might have helped some if the UQ was not covered with that layer of frost. If memory serves, I don't think I felt like I had much reserve at 10* without adding a jacket or pad into the PeaPod, as the SB was already in there.

    But it appears the manufacturer ratings ( 20* PeaPod- 0-10*F MWUQ) are about right for these products or even conservative, because I don't really think I am much of a warm sleeper anymore.
    For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory that is to be revealed to us....that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now.
    Romans 8:18,21-22

  8. #8
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    BB, thanks for the cold night review of the MWUQ.

    1st time I used the MWUQ at sub freezing temps I had inadequate head coverage using the Nest as a top quilt. Added a modified BMW balaclava keeps things toasty from toe to the top of my head. The MWUQ with the differential cut for no fuss set up and maintaining loft is best investment I've made for cold weather sleeping comfort.

    Not a winter camper, but this late winter or early spring I'm going to test out a combo of the BB with the MWUQ, Nest + BMW UL90 as top quilt + UL60 Balaclava. Hoping for a combination of clear, windless night with temps dropping down below -10C. Love star gazing during the winter. Laying in a hammock wrapped up in the quilts sounds real appealing. Plus no Bears!!!
    Noel V.

  9. #9
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    BB58, the velcro on the JRB Hood attaches directly to the No sniveler head hole when you use it for camp insulation. The kit I'm referring to allows you to attach it to the stand up collar on a vest or jacket. I should also add that my older Nest has been modified/shortened to 60in. The last two baffles/sections at the foot end have been removed, I always carry a pad and use it under my feet anyway. The down removed from those sections was added to baffles 2,3,4, and 5 (buttocks to shoulders) so, it is likely as warm as the current model.

  10. #10
    Senior Member BillyBob58's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Take-a-knee View Post
    BB58, the velcro on the JRB Hood attaches directly to the No sniveler head hole when you use it for camp insulation. The kit I'm referring to allows you to attach it to the stand up collar on a vest or jacket. I should also add that my older Nest has been modified/shortened to 60in. The last two baffles/sections at the foot end have been removed, I always carry a pad and use it under my feet anyway. The down removed from those sections was added to baffles 2,3,4, and 5 (buttocks to shoulders) so, it is likely as warm as the current model.
    Ok, that clarifies! It might be even warmer under the torso than current models, and the pad takes care of the legs. Sounds like a good mod!
    For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory that is to be revealed to us....that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now.
    Romans 8:18,21-22

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