Second night in a hammock - TONIGHT!!

[OldRagFreeze]

I do need some advice. I been searching the forums for the past hour trying to get some ideas and haven't quite found what I am searching for.

I honestly don't know what to try next. To recap the gear setup. I was using the Thermarest Ridgerest Large for my pad. I placed that between the layers of DL hammock. On top of the pad I have a cheap heat shield. I was wearing insulated long johns top and bottom. I also had a pair of fleece pajama type pants and a hooded sweatshirt and a beanie cap. I was using a DIY synthetic topquilt.

http://www.backpacking.net/makegear/...ilt/index.html

I wasn't miserable by any means, but the pad felt cold, primarily in my legs and hind end region is where is bothered me the most. It was just kind of cold all over though.

The wind was less than 5mph so don't think it was much of a factor. When I got out of my hammock at 5:20 it was around 32 degrees.

Any thoughts on what to try next? Should I double up on CCF pads for those temperatures? Should I wear more clothes? Should I buy a better heat shield? Should I just give up on the UP and break down and buy a UQ?

Wow... A couple things strike me here. First, you have a lot of clothes on as far as I'm concerned. Second, it's odd to me that you say you were 'cold all over,' in my experience with a similar set up I've had cold spots but never been just generally cold.

Something isn't right... On paper you've got what I would consider overkill for those temps. I'm thinking your TQ may not be as warm as you think it is. If it were me I'd spend a night on the ground (I know, it does sound terrible ) with that same set up. You should be plenty warm. If you aren't warm enough then you know your TQ is lacking. If you are warm enough then you know it's something hammock-specific.

You must be a very cold sleeper. I've had a similar set up down into the low teens fairly comfortably, with less clothing on.

[Snopes]

To clarify, I wasn't cold all over, the pad was. If I moved around to a new spot or position on the pad, it felt cold.

But everything else you are saying, I'm with you. I thought I should have been plenty warm also. I sleep hot when I am indoors, usually sweating at night. Maybe it is the TQ, I didn't feel cold on top, just the bottom, but maybe it's not holding in the heat well enough.

[OldRagFreeze]

To clarify, I wasn't cold all over, the pad was. If I moved around to a new spot or position on the pad, it felt cold.

But everything else you are saying, I'm with you. I thought I should have been plenty warm also. I sleep hot when I am indoors, usually sweating at night. Maybe it is the TQ, I didn't feel cold on top, just the bottom, but maybe it's not holding in the heat well enough.

Hmm, I have no experience with that particular pad so I don't know why that would be but that's odd. If anything my CCF feels warm and clammy under me... Which is why I don't let any bare skin on it if I can avoid it. Is the TQ tucking under your sides properly? It would seem to me if the pad is cold that means there is cold air getting to it. You sure you were entirely on the pad and not slipping off and feeling the cold from having no pad?

[Snopes]

I appreciate you trying to troubleshoot this with me. I kept feeling around to find the end of the pad to make sure I was still on it. That pad is 25 inches wide, so it's a pretty big pad. Maybe it's just the pad. It says it's for 3 season use.

http://www.campmor.com/outdoor/gear/Product___47726

Or maybe lilprincess is right, maybe if I moved that heat shield under the pad, but body head and the heat shield would help make the pad warmer.

[Loki]

Just guessing here - hope it helps...

Might be a perspiration issue as in too many clothes. Also, best to wear wool or synthetics - not cotton - just like hiking).

Otherwise i'd tend towards keeping the TQ tucked in all around you; or TQ not quite capable for 30-ish temps like OldRagFreeze mentions.

Keep tweaking! We've all been there with ya.

[dkurfiss]

Couple of things I would try.

Less clothing and none of it cotton. (I sleep in a fleece top, bottom, loose fitting wool sox, and a fleece watch cap)

Hot water bottle. Boil water, dump it into a nagalene or metal bottle, stick it in a wool sock, and just keep in on your stomach/groin area. It will work wonders for you and the heat will last through the night. Be sure you test the bottles to make double sure they don't leak. I found only 1 of my 4 bottles would actually not leak if turned upside down/sideways with boiling water in them.

Your pad. If your Thermarest pad is like mine it is a self inflating pad. Is that what you have? If so I would still recommend you try using a closed cell foam pad instead of it. My Thermarest does not do a good job of trapping the heat around me like my Walmart CCF pad does. Or perhaps use the Thermarest with a CCF in combination. I have not tried it but I believe Shug has if my memory of his video is correct. He puts both in a SPE.

When it is really cold out I have a 30F (+/-) TQ and I will used a fleece blanket as a liner for it. You do have to make sure your TQ is wrapped around you and not just laying loose. Allowing it to lay loose will give me cold spots big time.

[Snopes]

Hmmm...interesting thoughts. I appreciate that. I will give it another go using only synthetic and wool clothing and I think I'm going to ditch the heatshield thing.

I have another question, not that I want to do this, but would it potentially be warmer if I brought the CCF pad into the hammock with me instead of between the DLs?

[Fish]

I don't have any experience hanging in the cold as of yet, but it seems to me that you might consider a good wool blanket to put between you and the top layer of the hammock? So pad goes between the layers, then wool blanket above with you directly on the blanket? I agree with the others about ditching the cotton though, you're better off with a wool or synthetic.

Sounds like you're getting pretty close though, a bit more tweaking and you'll find something that works for you!

[BillyBob58]

Thanks for that! I have watched a few of Shugs videos but the other ones are new to me.

Well, this time was more successful than the last one. I made it until about 5:20am and was too cold to get back to sleep. Maybe an underpad just won't work down into the low 30s.

There was a table that Youngblood used to have at Speer's website, where he had some observed temps for various CCF and inflatable pads.

Isn't a Ridgerest 5/8 (.625)" thick? For regular flat non-ridged CCF pads, he listed a temp of 37F for 5/8" thick. However, he also cautioned that ccf pads with ridges might not be quite as warm as a non-ridged CCF pad, especially in a hammock. Something about the air that is supposed to be trapped between the ridges having an easy exit in a hammock, and/or the ridges flatening out more easily, with the cold air under a hammock, I'm not sure what the exact reasoning was. And I don't know how much actual observations all of his data was based on.

Anyway, just going by the 5/8" rating for non-ridges CCF, that was 37F with an R value of 2.7, FWIW. I see the Ridgrest Solite has an R value of 2.8. Don't these new RRs have aluminized surface for a warmth boost? And I see the Ridgrest SOLAR is a bit thicker at .75" with an R value of 3.5, is that the one you have? If so, he rates 3.5 R value regular CCF at ~ 27F.

So depending on how thick your pad is, and if it works as good as non-ridged CCF in a hammock, it looks like it will be good to about 37F, or if the thicker pad, maybe 27F. And maybe neither will be quite that warm because these are ridged ccf models.

So looks like in the low 30s you would be beyond the range of the thinner RR, and about near the limits of the thicker one.

OK, EDIT: I see from a later post that you are using the TR RR classic with an R value of 2.6. So per that old Speer table, much below 40 would be pushing the limits of that pad, even if it was non-ridged. So sounds like you did good to get to 0500 and low 30s. Ditto what others have said about sleeping in fleece which is compresses very little, that would by you a few degrees, as would avoiding cotton. Or sleeping inside a synthetic sleeping bag, that would get you another few degrees, if you are not already doing that. If you had an SPE, you could stack a cut off torso sized part of a WM Blue pad and probably add another 20+ degrees with ease.

This is all assuming that you are warm and draft free on top, and you have good thick head insulation equivalent to a mummy bags hood?

[Snopes]

That is perfect. Thanks for that post. I was able to find that chart you are talking about. That is exactly what I was trying to find. I couldn't find any temperature ratings for my pad. From the limited experience with my pad, I would say that rating of 37 degrees is probably pretty accurate.

The clothing switch will probably help, but realistically I was pushing that pad beyond what it is probably supposed to be capable of.

Thanks again!