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  1. #1
    WillieCash's Avatar
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    Kammok - Where is the love?

    I really love the Kammok line. I don't know why it hasn't caught on more with the hammock community. At our group hang in the spring I was the only one there with a Roo, which kind of surprised me.

    The group hang gave me a great opportunity to look at and test several brands/models that I had never seen and I don't think there was one of them that could compare with the fabric quality of the Roo in terms of comfort and durability. Plus, it's super long and comfortable with my 6'6" frame (even when I weighed 313 pounds) which is rare.

    One thing Kammok is doing that I don't see as much from other vendors is really trying to re-imagine some of the things we take for granted.


    Case in point: The new Glider tarp.

    I'm really impressed with the idea of it, though I haven't purchased one as of yet. I'm stoked they are looking at improvements that go beyond just looking for reducing weight and improving durability.

    The water collection idea is great and I can't believe nobody else has done it to this point. You can get drinking water without having to leave the shelter of your rig to filter water in the middle of a storm. As an added bonus, the weight of the gathered water further steadies the tarp in high winds (which tend to go hand in hand with storms when you need it most). The idea to have a darker and lighter side to either shield or gather heat is really good too. I've always wondered why nobody had done this before.


    So what's the deal? What has kept any of you away from the line? Brand loyalty? Stuck in a rut? DIY only?

    I would encourage those who have been sticking to the same brands and models for years to give them a shot. I don't think you'll be disappointed.

  2. #2
    Senior Member angrysparrow's Avatar
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    Everything they make, to me, really falls into the ho-hum category. There's nothing they sell that you can't essentially get the same thing from ENO, or TrekLight, Grand Trunk, etc.

    The water-collection method has been around for years from Hennessy. It didn't catch on from them mostly because you also collect all the contaminants that are on your tarp surface, right along with the water.

    Unless I'm mistaken, most of the Kammock gear is also 'foreign factory' made, as opposed to being hand-made by cottage shops. That's what gets the most attention in this community, simply because people like supporting small businesses, can get to know the people that made their gear, and get great customer service along with it.

    JMO
    “I think that when the lies are all told and forgot the truth will be there yet. It dont move about from place to place and it dont change from time to time. You cant corrupt it any more than you can salt salt.” - Cormac McCarthy

  3. #3
    Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by angrysparrow View Post
    The water-collection method has been around for years from Hennessy. It didn't catch on from them mostly because you also collect all the contaminants that are on your tarp surface, right along with the water.
    I was wondering, when I saw their add on the "glider", about possible contaminants from the tarp itself.

    Seems to be made from "revolutionary fabric technology"...which made me question what chemicals may be in the tarp runoff itself. Had the same question about the Hennessy version when I'd seen it mentioned before, but moreso for this since they're trying a new type of tarp/fabric construction.

  4. #4
    Senior Member Cannibal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WillieCash View Post
    One thing Kammok is doing that I don't see as much from other vendors is really trying to re-imagine some of the things we take for granted.


    Case in point: The new Glider tarp.

    I'm really impressed with the idea of it, though I haven't purchased one as of yet. I'm stoked they are looking at improvements that go beyond just looking for reducing weight and improving durability.

    The water collection idea is great and I can't believe nobody else has done it to this point. You can get drinking water without having to leave the shelter of your rig to filter water in the middle of a storm. As an added bonus, the weight of the gathered water further steadies the tarp in high winds (which tend to go hand in hand with storms when you need it most). The idea to have a darker and lighter side to either shield or gather heat is really good too. I've always wondered why nobody had done this before.
    This section is just wrong. Innovations in the hammock industry have been firing off at an insane rate over the last 6 years; underquilts, winter tarps, super-light suspensions, partial underquilts, wearable quilts, on and on. Kammock may be innovating, but certainly not even close to the pace of other vendors during the same timeframe.

    And, Hennessy marketed the water-collection thing years ago. It wasn't terribly well received, but it's been there for a while.

    It's one thing to compliment a vendor and I agree they may deserve some compliments, but refrain from doing so at other vendor's expense. Especially with information that isn't accurate.
    Trust nobody!

  5. #5
    Senior Member Rolloff's Avatar
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    Drinking tarp runoff?

    Pass.

    Wonders it never caught on
    Signature suspended

  6. #6
    SilvrSurfr's Avatar
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    Everything they sell is too heavy for a backpacking hammock in my opinion. The hammock alone is 24 oz., then they use carabiners which aren't strong enough to support a human:

    https://www.hammockforums.net/forum/...ad.php?t=73575

    Nothing original about their 12 oz python straps, either, from what I can tell: ENO Slap Straps or Atlas Straps with a new label on them. They should at least consider offering a lighter suspension like whoopies, but they don't.

    And the Bear Grylls Glyder tarp is 25 oz. as well, made from Cordura. I'm sure their Dragonfly insect net will also weigh a lot (I see a zipper in the pics). You're looking at a 4lb. tarp/hammock setup and you haven't even got bug protection.

    The whole setup sounds like a car-camping setup to me - which is fine if that's what you want. They just don't seem to be marketing or designing their products to appeal to HF members - they're trying to go for the ENO crowd. It's a noob setup, basically.

  7. #7
    WillieCash's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilvrSurfr View Post
    Everything they sell is too heavy for a backpacking hammock in my opinion. The hammock alone is 24 oz., then they use carabiners which aren't strong enough to support a human:

    https://www.hammockforums.net/forum/...ad.php?t=73575

    Nothing original about their 12 oz python straps, either, from what I can tell: ENO Slap Straps or Atlas Straps with a new label on them. They should at least consider offering a lighter suspension like whoopies, but they don't.

    And the Bear Grylls Glyder tarp is 25 oz. as well, made from Cordura. I'm sure their Dragonfly insect net will also weigh a lot (I see a zipper in the pics). You're looking at a 4lb. tarp/hammock setup and you haven't even got bug protection.

    The whole setup sounds like a car-camping setup to me - which is fine if that's what you want. They just don't seem to be marketing or designing their products to appeal to HF members - they're trying to go for the ENO crowd. It's a noob setup, basically.
    I guess it all comes down to what your priorities are in terms of what you are trying to accomplish.

    While I am currently down to about 250 lbs from 315 from last September, the last two backpacking trips I went on I was MUCH heavier. If I have to choose between carrying a couple extra ounces in fabric and straps to get through the night without worrying about it, to me it was worth it. I know most backpackers like the challenge of reducing weight as much as humanly possible. I guess I may be the exception in that I'm not to concerned about if my pack weighs an extra 3-5 pounds if I can bring along some "luxury" items like fishing gear, whiskey, etc... That's likely the reason I didn't consider the (relative) bump in weight a deterrent. Especially after comparing the fabric to other brands. I can; however, see how it could be for some.

    I have backpacked with the Roo (replaced the stock 'biners) and used the python straps. They worked out fine for me.

    I've seen plenty of setups using whoopies and, while I do think they are fascinating and impressive feats of engineering, I just trust a vendor's ability to make something static more than my ability to tie a knot. Especially when the closest assistance if necessary is a 5 hour hike out if unladen with a pack and in good health. I may be being overly cautious, but it amazes me that some of the UL guys go out with the stuff they do. It's super-impressive. But not for me.

  8. #8
    SilvrSurfr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WillieCash View Post
    I've seen plenty of setups using whoopies and, while I do think they are fascinating and impressive feats of engineering, I just trust a vendor's ability to make something static more than my ability to tie a knot. Especially when the closest assistance if necessary is a 5 hour hike out if unladen with a pack and in good health. I may be being overly cautious, but it amazes me that some of the UL guys go out with the stuff they do. It's super-impressive. But not for me.
    So you don't trust the cottage vendors who sell whoopies (that, by the way, have no knots)? Yet you trust Kammok who sells you carabiners that fail and are woefully inadequate to support human weight? Amazing.

    Not to mention the python straps, which Kammok describes thusly:

    Weight: 12oz (and that's not including the biners at 1.2 oz each)
    Max weight capacity: 500lbs total 250lbs each

    Using Kammok's own numbers, compare that to a complete suspension using 7/64" Amsteel Whoopies from Dutchware:

    Specs: -a pair of Whoopie hooks are 6.8 grams (1000 lb. breaking strength)
    -with whoopie slings and loops is 47 grams (even if you rate the spliced Amsteel at 80% breaking strength it's still 1280 lb. breaking strength)
    Tree Straps - 2 oz. - 1500 lb. breaking strength

    Weight -complete with slings, continuous loops and 4′ hugger is 104 grams (3.7 oz).

    Using Kammok's own calcs here's your Dutch suspension:

    Weight: 3.7 oz
    Max weight capacity: 2000lbs total 1000 lbs each

    So what you don't want is a Whoopie Sling suspension that is vastly more robust, weighs 1/4 of the Kammok suspension, and has 4 times the breaking strength?

    Okay, if you say so. If you were cautious, as you claim to be, I would think you would chuck the Kammok suspension at the earliest opportunity. I think you're buying into the illusion of a more robust suspension, but you are getting seriously short-changed. I think you need to do a little more research, personally.
    Last edited by SilvrSurfr; 06-13-2013 at 20:05.

  9. #9
    Member AC8MJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilvrSurfr View Post
    The whole setup sounds like a car-camping setup to me - which is fine if that's what you want. They just don't seem to be marketing or designing their products to appeal to HF members - they're trying to go for the ENO crowd. It's a noob setup, basically.

    OOPS....My Blackbird and Superfly are my noob setup. What do I do next??? Oh yeah, kick back and relax! Rookie hanging done right the first time.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Rolloff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AC8MJ View Post
    OOPS....My Blackbird and Superfly are my noob setup. What do I do next??? Oh yeah, kick back and relax! Rookie hanging done right the first time.
    Well done young Padewan
    Signature suspended

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