Synthetic Love

[BillyBob58]

.........The whole situation was actually kind of scary looking back at it now, but it was made ever so slightly better by not having to use my body heat to dry out a soaked UQ on top of everything else. It's probably the only reason I could make it through the night at all; having both insulative layers dryish. But that hammock fabric held a ton of moisture and released it all night. In a word: sucked!

Oh, I see: you were using the air conditioner approach to cold weather sleeping: evaporative cooling! Works every time, if you want to cool off! Glad you made it through the night! I tried a similar trick one time. I was totally synthetic and, either from sweat or from external moisture or both, on an all day hike and river crossing in the blowing 1+ ft of late June snow, totally damp to wet. I'll always believe that my old worn out bag was just not warm enough for these temps, but I was also using a lot of body heat to dry insulation. I sure was cold that night, and like you my boots froze solid even though they were under my bag. If only I hadn't had to get up the next morning, because by then all was dry and I was warm. Here we are the next morning. That nice puffy looking synthetic bag drying on a tree branch is my buddies( on the lt, me on the right), and a much puffier bag than mine was. Notice his 100% wool clothing, a mine 100% synthetic. I still use that Patagonia Polyester Pile balaclava and mittens from that picture, they show no wear at all and are still quite warm and dry uber fast. They wear like iron, def got my money's worth! That was June 27, 1985, just up the road from you in WY.

This winter, my girlfriend and I spent a week hopping around Maine and NH, alternately hanging and staying in motels. We spent the last few days of February in ME (Acadia NP) and the first few days of March in NH (Mt. Washington NF). We spent the first night in NH in a motel. We readied our backpacking gear in the morning before we checked out and had picked a nice spot to snowshoe into to hang for the night. We spent the day touring the area, then headed to the trailhead just in time to make our hike in and set up before dark.

Except I couldn't find the trailhead.

We finally got to where we needed to be and quickly grabbed our packs out of the back of the car. I noticed a little water on mine but wasn't concerned... we had everything piled up in the back of my Forester incuding water bottles, wet clothes, etc. Plus, we were cutting it close on time to get to where we wanted to be before dark, so we were in a big hurry.

We snowshoe'd in the rain, found a nice spot to set up, and started unpacking our gear as the rain turned to snow. My stuff was VERY wet. The old school hydration pack in my Lowe Alpine Crossbow 90 pack had leaked almost two quarts of water into the interior. I was very worried about how my evening was going to go! Turns out my trusty Kick *** Quilts New River full-length UQ was plenty warm enough after I shook the water out.

desmobob

Wow, another grand testimonial to something working great in the real world, where things sometimes go awry!

BillyBob58,,,I know your teasing. Will post later about the tarp. Not having very good luck with cuben in the heat.

You are having a lot of heat up in Indiana? We have had a remarkably cool summer so far down here in MS, I've seen much worse summers. Low tonight of 64 and dry, wonderful for us!

[Sailor]

I was a synthetic guy (middle class kid), yearned and got down, then drifted back to man made, and am now again goosey. The seasons of life.

What surprises me is that the techies still have not come up with a warmer-than-down hydrophobic substance for the general market, a kind of aerogel for quilts and bags. When will we have a soft, light and warm filler that water won't stick too?

[gargoyle]

Not to drift the thread...
And for the sake of discussion.

There is hydrophobic down available now.
The treatment allows the down to be completely saturated for hours, and still not absorb high percentages of moisture. Some of the vendors are offering the treated down as an option for the quilts.

And as for keeping your gear dry... How well you pack you gear (compactor bags, dry bags, etc.) will determine if rain or a leaking water bottle will get things wet. Keeping food or liquids/fuel that may pose a "leak" potential sealed in ziplock or drybag, will at least contain the damage.
Regardless of the insulation (synthetics vs down) I'm using, I store them in my pack separately to at least minimize the potential damage that could happen in a what-if scenario.

an ounce of prevention..

[Jcavenagh]

I have been a synthetic insulation user since the 70's. I got a down UQ for winter and a down BA bag.

But my summer UQ is a KAQ Potomac. It packs fine in a zPacks Balst 30. And in a damp summer morn it has no issues.

[SquirrelGirl]

So. Noob question... yall are pretty much saying that if weight isn't an issue I should go with synthetic bc its more versatile for possible wet weather/dew/etc? (Budget only allows for one UQ).

[BillyBob58]

So. Noob question... yall are pretty much saying that if weight isn't an issue I should go with synthetic bc its more versatile for possible wet weather/dew/etc? (Budget only allows for one UQ).

Well, sort of, but not exactly. Seems like most so far in this thread are showing a lot of Syn love, but most HF folks are crazy about down, some don't think there is that much dif when wet ( though I'm not one of those) and others think you should always be able to keep your down dry. ( Me, I'm a fan of both depending on trip related variables) Oh, and as gargoyle just mentioned, there is now some quite water resistant down available. Although the jury is still out as to whether it will match Primaloft, Polarguard or Climashield for water resistance and quick drying, it is certainly- or probably- a big improvement.

Down packs much smaller. It always lasted much longer for me, or kept it's loft way longer, all though this last stuff I got- Climashield, has maintained it's loft for years now, so maybe it's better in that area? I think Climashield may compete better in an UQ where it is pulled snug against your back. Down MIGHT have an advantage in a TQ, because I think it might drape better down onto your body. Many think down has a wider comfort range and/or is more breathable.

Down has a lot of advantages. But if I could not either guarantee keeping it dry ( not counting the newest hi tech down maybe), and I can on most of my trips, OR safely bail out and go home if I did get wet, then I will take synthetic every time. Or at least a mixture of syn and down clothing/sleep gear. Cost less also, but maybe not if the down last a lot longer. I think the main thing is PG or CS are going to take up a lot more room in your pack, and every one uses such small packs these days.

[sargevining]

So. Noob question... yall are pretty much saying that if weight isn't an issue I should go with synthetic bc its more versatile for possible wet weather/dew/etc? (Budget only allows for one UQ).

As Billy Bob says, weight may not be an issue, but bulk may be.

Having said that, I'll go with my Potomac. Yes, its bulkier than its down equivalent, but it rains a lot down here, and when it does, it don't fool around none at all. I also don't need uber low temp ratings. If its going to be below 30* on the weekend I'm planning to camp, I just reschedule to the next weekend when its likely to get up to 80.

Look at the weather in your area, look at your pack, look at your pocket book, then go shopping.

[Acer]

So. Noob question... yall are pretty much saying that if weight isn't an issue I should go with synthetic bc its more versatile for possible wet weather/dew/etc? (Budget only allows for one UQ).

If this is your first UQ, and you have a limited budget,,try synthetic and if you, at some time, want to try down, you can always sell your UQ here on the forum for little to no loss. Here in the Midwest, especially this year,,we have been for past 4-6 weeks in a Omega Low with the jet stream dipping way south, wet spring and summer,,extreme high humidities and dew points driving the "feels like temps in the 100's". Now 2 low pressure systems moving from the East/South to West/North,,(very unusual) pressure weather systems moving backwards. Every morning we have experienced low visibility due to fog created. To me,,in these conditions of wetness,,unless your going to go the down that is treated to repell water, and your planning on doing a bit of hanging outdoors,,nothing wrong at all with leaning towards synthetic as a lot of users use it with no problems at all and love it. Lots of pros and cons, about both,,down and synthetic and so a lot of us have both. For your budget and first, good luck on your choices. Also My top quilts are mostly down,,but I also have a synthetic 50 degree TQ also that I use a lot in the summer cause it drys a lot quicker even if I sweat alittle using it.

[nothermark]

It sort of comes down to how often you plan on waking up in a cloud. It's fine to preach keeping your down dry by packing it properly but nobody I have heard of has figured out how to keep everything dry when in heavy fog or hard blown rain 100% of the time. Especially if it is a multi day event. If you live and hike the desert you will probably never get wet. If you are on a boat in some places you will seldom get dry. Then there are all those places in between where we get to collect stories from. You have to do the balancing act depending on what you plan on doing. Really plan on doing not dream of.

[DuctTape]

Squirrelgirl, I would say yes based on the criteria you stated.

There is a reason so many different materials and other variables in gear exist. There isn't a perfect ______ for everyone for every condition for every trip. All gear, materials etc... have different characteristics and depending on the end user, his/her environment, etc... different choices are better. Or maybe that is how I justify having so many different stoves, pots, hammocks, tarps, quilts, bags, pads, packs, canoes, etc, etc, etc...

Anyway, how long does cheese last on the trail?