Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 33
  1. #21
    Senior Member desmobob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    upstate NY
    Hammock
    WBBB XLC dbl. 1.7, ENO Dblnst
    Tarp
    Superfly, MCat Dlx
    Insulation
    Zep/Incu/NewR/SSnv
    Suspension
    tree strap/whoopie
    Posts
    350
    I love geese. I love hunting them, eating them, and having their feathers in my winter clothing and camping gear.

    But this discussion... I'm in a daze...

    It feels like sargevining and BillyBob58 just sat me down, shook me by the shoulders, and got it through my head that there is no Santa Claus.

    I don't know if I'll be able to go to work tomorrow....

    Take it easy,
    desmobob

  2. #22
    Senior Member Rolloff's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Leveland
    Hammock
    BIAS WW DH Freebird
    Tarp
    AHE Toxaway
    Insulation
    JRB SS HG Clone
    Suspension
    Whoopies Straps
    Posts
    2,128
    Quote Originally Posted by desmobob View Post
    I love geese. I love hunting them, eating them, and having their feathers in my winter clothing and camping gear.

    But this discussion... I'm in a daze...

    It feels like sargevining and BillyBob58 just sat me down, shook me by the shoulders, and got it through my head that there is no Santa Claus.

    I don't know if I'll be able to go to work tomorrow....

    Take it easy,
    desmobob

    It gets even worse. The best down available comes from ducks.
    Signature suspended

  3. #23
    Senior Member desmobob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    upstate NY
    Hammock
    WBBB XLC dbl. 1.7, ENO Dblnst
    Tarp
    Superfly, MCat Dlx
    Insulation
    Zep/Incu/NewR/SSnv
    Suspension
    tree strap/whoopie
    Posts
    350
    Quote Originally Posted by Rolloff View Post
    It gets even worse. The best down available comes from ducks.
    Eider way, my heart is still broken.

    Take it easy,
    desmobob

  4. #24
    Senior Member BillyBob58's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Tupelo, MS
    Posts
    9,851
    Images
    377
    Quote Originally Posted by desmobob View Post
    I love geese. I love hunting them, eating them, and having their feathers in my winter clothing and camping gear.

    But this discussion... I'm in a daze...

    It feels like sargevining and BillyBob58 just sat me down, shook me by the shoulders, and got it through my head that there is no Santa Claus.

    I don't know if I'll be able to go to work tomorrow....

    Take it easy,
    desmobob
    I do apologize, Des! I have this horrible habit of rambling on about things that are barely worth talking about!

    Now, what Acer said about the price of down, that does warrant attention! I don't like the sound of that at all! Plus, cost is one of the factors in CS favor already!

  5. #25
    Senior Member desmobob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    upstate NY
    Hammock
    WBBB XLC dbl. 1.7, ENO Dblnst
    Tarp
    Superfly, MCat Dlx
    Insulation
    Zep/Incu/NewR/SSnv
    Suspension
    tree strap/whoopie
    Posts
    350
    Quote Originally Posted by BillyBob58 View Post
    I do apologize, Des! I have this horrible habit of rambling on about things that are barely worth talking about!

    Now, what Acer said about the price of down, that does warrant attention! I don't like the sound of that at all! Plus, cost is one of the factors in CS favor already!
    No need to apologize. It's a nice gesture, but the damage is already done.

    As for the down price, hmmm... Now that I was just this year able to finally bring my life's dream to fruition and buy not only two new down sleeping bags, but a down underquilt and topquilt as well, I guess I can rest a little easier knowing they may gain some value and I might be able to sell them and buy a new VCR, Polaroid camera, or some other cool new gadget!

    Take it easy,
    desmobob

  6. #26
    sr1355's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Jackson, MI
    Hammock
    DREAM HAMMOCK
    Tarp
    UGQ H11/12 WD11
    Insulation
    UGQ TQ/UQ
    Suspension
    Whoopies w/ ET's
    Posts
    2,526
    Images
    103
    Death of down, well maybe just not yet. I think it will be some time before we will see the replacement synthetic insulation yet to be invented make it to market for consumers goods. I do believe we will eventually have that product available as an industry but not right now.

    Duck down is becoming quite popular with main stream manufacturers. It is available up to 800FP in both treated and untreated flavors. Duck down is less expensive and more readily available. Virtually no cost has been added to the DWR down for the benefits received from the DWR process. You might ask why our supplier even offers untreated down if cost is not a major factor, I can not answer that question for you as it's their business model.

    We offer both so the consumer has a "Choice" of untreated or treated down. Just like we offer a choice of colors we want you to have the gear you want. Down prices being fairly stable through the end of 2013 was discussed in my last conversation with our supplier two days ago. Demand had grown worldwide in the last 4 quarters driving price up on a fixed supply commodity. There is some long term forecasting that demand worldwide will lessen in Q1-2 2014 with cost coming down, but no one has a crystal ball and only time will tell.

    Can we declare a winner in the down vs. synthetic debate? The fact of the matter is that down is better except when synthetic is better. The distinguishing line gets more blurred every year. Just a few years ago, down was unmatched; but today's lighter, warmer, and more compressible synthetics are slowly closing the gap. Down responded by narrowing the gap even further with DWR treatments and guess who really wins in the end? You, Me, My Buddy, Your Buddy, we all benefit by the advancement and improvement of both insulation types.

    I by no means intended to open the same old can of worms with my opening post. Just my observations on what we had "floating" around the shop. I think both insulation types have a place in our industry, just like GM & Ford have a place in the automobile industry even though they basically make the same underlying product. Lets not get into the GM vs Ford debate, I have work to do. I'm sure this debate will go on until the last goose is plucked.

    Some one had better tell Mother Goose to pack her bags as the end of her days are getting close. Here comes Daffy Duck....

    Happy Hangin'

    Paul - Master Fabric Welder @ UGQ

    >>>VISIT UGQ OUTDOOR HERE<<<

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  7. #27
    Senior Member BillyBob58's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Tupelo, MS
    Posts
    9,851
    Images
    377
    Well said, Paul, well said indeed.

    Down will probably be with us until at least 1 more significant leap in insulation technology. Of course, the most recent leap in this technology has benefited down!

    As for me, big CS fan that I am, at least for certain conditions I am hot for some DWR down! I want me some! And as you live way up north, I'm hoping you will be testing the effect on loft, during some really cold weather over several days, the effect of condensation inside the shell of regular down quilts vs DWR quilts.

    I'm figuring the condensation should be the same. You may remember back when some modern Arctic Explorers, even though they had their bags drying on the sleds every day for several weeks, had their 17 lb breathable Quallofil synthetic bags gain ~ 35 lbs when their body vapor froze every night after night. So the condensation probably happens regardless of insulation type ( though Wiggy claims otherwise, and Turnerminator may confirm him).

    But I'd like to know if the DWR down- since it should not absorb the condensation- keeps more loft than the non-dwr down. I think it will. Also, isn't Cryothewild up there in your neck of the woods? I remember him telling me about finding ice inside his Marmot Pinnacle bag, so he knows about condensation! So he would be a good tester of DWR down.

  8. #28
    Senior Member dakotaross's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Chamblee, GA
    Hammock
    Bonefire Whisper or no net
    Tarp
    Toxaway or asym
    Insulation
    Down/Apex UQs
    Suspension
    Ultimate straps
    Posts
    2,960
    Images
    19
    Quote Originally Posted by sr1355 View Post
    ...I read a few threads on types of insulation on HF and the fear of moisture with Down. I think a lot of this fear is from the early years of down. Poor quality down and poor fabrics both contributed to moisture problems. Personally after 25 years of exclusive use of Down in the back country I have had no major issues. From Rain Forest, to heavy sea fog, to week long soaker trips, I've never had a wet piece of Down gear. During the dark tent days the tent floor would get pretty wet on extended rain event but Down gear always seemed to perform when protected by a pad.

    ...In the end I think personal preference, experience, and your budget will dictate your choice of Down or Synthetic insulation. I for one will take the high insulation value of 850+ Down, the compressibility, and the super light weight that down offers.
    Came across this is a search and thought it was worth the equivalent of a "share", or I guess a current "bump". Quotes are from the first post that contains more info on the why of this opinion. Whether its DWR treated down or regular down, seems to me that down gets a bad rap in terms of how well its able to deal with moisture vapor and even a little in liquid form. I believe in the DWR stuff, but many very experienced down users doubt the DWR does much outside of performing well in beaker tests.
    "I wonder if anyone else has an ear so tuned and sharpened as I have, to detect the music, not of the spheres, but of earth, subtleties of major and minor chord that the wind strikes upon the tree branches. Have you ever heard the earth breathe... ?"
    - Kate Chopin

  9. #29
    OneClick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    invalid value
    Hammock
    Dutch Argon 10.5'
    Tarp
    Anything Warbonnet
    Insulation
    Hammock Gear
    Suspension
    WB Straps+Buckles
    Posts
    10,553
    Images
    20
    Quote Originally Posted by dakotaross View Post
    ...many very experienced down users doubt the DWR does much outside of performing well in beaker tests.
    That's me. My last winter trip would have been ruined if I stayed another night. The second night I slept well but realized there was water inside/outside my TQ. Vapor from the low hitting -16F and no wind. Any frost and insensible sweat was liquid form being close to my body. I was shocked and actually had to ask "did I pee myself?"

    Either way it would have been impossible to dry things out and a miserable third night, down or synthetic. So my favorite quote applies...


  10. #30
    Billmichhiker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Rochester, mi and Peoria, AZ
    Hammock
    Blackbird XLC
    Tarp
    UGQ winter dream
    Insulation
    UGQ top &amp; under
    Suspension
    Whoopies
    Posts
    39
    Goose down ... not a doubt ... just need to keep it dry like anything else I sleep with.

  • + New Posts
  • Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast

    Similar Threads

    1. CLO Values of different insulations. Synthetics and down
      By Metavo in forum Do-It-Yourself (DIY)
      Replies: 5
      Last Post: 01-27-2014, 15:23
    2. Synthetics for AT?
      By Gravity in forum Under Quilts
      Replies: 22
      Last Post: 05-06-2013, 20:57
    3. Synthetics for AT?
      By Gravity in forum Top Insulation
      Replies: 6
      Last Post: 04-18-2013, 10:19
    4. compressing synthetics
      By deerfu in forum Bottom Insulation
      Replies: 5
      Last Post: 03-11-2012, 18:15

    Bookmarks

    Posting Permissions

    • You may not post new threads
    • You may not post replies
    • You may not post attachments
    • You may not edit your posts
    •