The 1-piece Z-liner

[DemostiX]

Let's set reasonable expectations.

The Z-liner below a TX is not going to be much warmer than the same-thickness Climashield UQ from Arrowhead. OK, a little better due to the custom-fit.

So, take advantage of the wealth of data in other HForums and from the AHE web page on the KickAss quilts.

[outdoorsguy]

Mid or expedition weight Caprilene or Polarmax and a hat is a great idea but I'd feel like Ralphie's brother ("a tick about to pop", Christmas Story) if I had to sleep in 2 sweatshirts, sweatpants, slippers, mittens, and a field jacket (presumably with a liner). Cold from below has usually been my biggest problem. When doing overnight ski-trips before I got my Warmlite sleeping bag with a DAM (suitable for polar expeditions), I used to pull everything out of my pack, put my pack on the tent floor, put my Thermarest down, then put all my dry stuff including boots on top of the pad and put my sleeping bag at the top of the pile. It wasn't comfortable to sleep on all that stuff but at least I was warm. I can only imagine how comfortable it will be to nestle into the bed of my NX-250 with just a good UQ and TQ and not have to be as concerned about pads and such underneath me. However if I'm pushing the limits of my UQ & TQ I'll try to create as much dead air space underneath me as I can in the pockets below me as long as it doesn't compromise the UQ's loft. Then I can sleep on top of anything soft, and under anything but beneath the TQ that is big/long enough to drape over me (like a dry jacket).

Have you considered a fleece or silk sleeping bag liner to use with your TQ?

Ralphies brother....good one
The field jacket did not have a liner, I can't find it. But it would have been in if I could have found it.

I am one of those people (obviously) who believe you can't have too many layers on when you bed down. Other guys in my unit (WAY back in the day) could sleep in their skivvies, not me. It doesn't bother me , especially in the NX 250, because I lay in it in line, on my back. And corpses move more than I do at night, so the many layers I wear don't inhibit movement, because there isn't any. And I don't like not putting on freezing clothes on a low 20s morning. ...do see your point about dead space and maybe stuffing that clothing in the pockets instead of wearing it to increase the R value of an UQ...food for thought. But I have a z liner and I am leery of putting anything into the pockets with the liner for fear of compressing it. We'll see.

Didn't think of a liner but am still on the same page...was planning to use my cheap Slumberjack 50 deg bag as additional...cut the zippers off and was planning to slide it over and into my AHE OQ like a sandwich.

I was also thinking of breaking out my very heavy and very warm 0 deg "field and stream" sleeping bag....it has a convertable top for deep cold as I believe your Warmlite does. I've used it in my RR last year, with pads, and got down to 23 deg. Very warm but my back got clammy moist and under the bag next to the pad was wet. Common.

Lots of testing ahead.

[P-47ChowHound]

Outdoorsguy, thanks for your testing and reports.
I am one of those "skivvies" sleepers and the thought of all you were wearing was giving me claustrophobia just reading it. What can I say, I am still wearing shorts in NJ. I am interested in the "cold spots" usually attributed to the Zliners. You touched on it a few posts back. Am I correct in thinking some of the problem is no attention to detail installing the liners. I find it hard to believe that Clark would put so much effort into making a premier hammock would than offer a less than adequate insulation package. So I have a request from all us "skivvies" sleepers. Could you give a 1 hour hang, less about 50% clothing, to report any cold spots with properly installed liners. I understand that in your case it would be, colder that cold, spots.
Again thank you for sharing all your testing

[outdoorsguy]

P-47chowhound thanks. But as Brian Miller correctly surmised, the layers were pretty much for top half warmth, not so much with bottom half. With the different number of layers and different temps I've laid in (Wed in backyard test got down to 25, which is just about z liner limit for me), I would have felt a cold spot big time by now. But I haven't. None, zero.

Don't know why others have gotten cold using them, could be a million reasons. But every time I deploy my NX with the z liners, at least one pad has shifted in the pocket, which would definitely form a cold spot. I also don't put anything in the pockets, I'm a skeerd of shifting/compressing the pad.

read the many posts on z liners, see which apply to you and which don't. Then decide. Good luck to you.

[P-47ChowHound]

Outdooorsguy, thanks, you just clarified it for me. fyi, My wife got a chuckle from your "corpses moves more", as I cover a lot of territory in 8 hrs of sleep.