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  1. #21
    Senior Member BillyBob58's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwpapke View Post
    I can see where the additional pad would add warmth, but I've never gone this route as a pad is not sufficiently multipurpose. I could see a sit pad tucked up underneath the kidneys, but not a full length pad.

    At temperatures below freezing where you need more than the SS, you will also need more in-camp clothing such as parkas. I always put the parka underneath the SS when I crawled into the sack, as they don't work well in a sleeping bag.

    When winter camping there is a constant struggle to keep the bulk/weight down in the backpack. CCF pads take up a LOT of space, and can't be used as evening insulation while eating, etc.

    The Jacks have the right idea with the Sniveller quilt, where it has a headhole to be wearable in camp as a serape, then becomes your topquilt. Can't see where you could do the same with a pad.

    So I guess what I am scratching my head on, is even if you can get this configuration to provide good warmth underneath, is it the best choice for lugging around in the backcountry?

    --Kurt
    The main answer to "why" is simply as another means or trick of boosting the HHSS. Much as you used a different type of pad, down in the UC, as part of pushing your HHSS way below zero.

    Another answer is: I have never yet gone without at least a piece of torso sized CCF as an emergency "go to ground" back up, as well as my sit pad. I have only had to use it twice in 7 years, on the ground, but I sure was glad I had it. So since I will always have one with me anyway, it seems reasonable to me to see if it could have another use besides go to ground and sit pad. Though I mentioned full length, I am probably thinking more of torso length.

    One other possibility: many people use some form of CCF added to, or built into, their packs to add somewhat of a frame. Once again, if this can actually be used to boost the HHSS, then even more multi-purpose: pack frame, sit pad, go to ground, insulation inside the hammock for if the HHSS is not enough and their is no unworn clothing available to boost it, or placed down inside the UC to avoid any of the complaints about using a pad inside the hammock. IOW, if you need all of your insulation for top warmth, or there is not enough available for placing below to reach the temps you need. Like maybe in an unexpected cold snap, or if you have messed up and got some of your insulation wet.

    That's all I can think of right now. Not at all needed, but, for those who have some foam with them anyway, it just seems like it would be nice to know if it could be pushed into another service than pack or sit or fire fan. Plus, just curious.
    For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory that is to be revealed to us....that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now.
    Romans 8:18,21-22

  2. #22
    Tinmar's Avatar
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    21degrees. SS with 40 degree bag placed under foam and space blanket on top. Woke up too hot and had to vent my bag. Oh was using a 0 degree bag in the hammock.

  3. #23
    New Member HangOn's Avatar
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    Couple weeks ago I experimented with a bunch of
    freshly cut tallgrass in my hh explorer deluxe and 30 degree bag which did eliminate cold spots.I thought pine needles would be a better undernest and it eliminated
    cold spotting in 25 degrees with -10 bag and goretex bivybag. Goretex shell may have repelled condensation
    but there was no sign of moisture so I'm betting it was pine needles.I am not an ultra-lighter so much of my suggestions may not suit your style or preference.

  4. #24
    moshe's Avatar
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    Well, I tried it out last night. I set up my HH with the whole super shelter system. Over cover, under cover, foam pad and then put a full length CCF under the HH pad. It was 33 last night and I lasted about an hour before getting too cold. I just don't think it has enough loft to get the R- value.
    I'm sure it helped some and if I had a section of CCF with me anyway, I would use it. Every little bit helps. But I wouldn't put my eggs in this basket.
    Fill what's empty, empty what's full, scratch where it itches.
    Gal. 2:20

  5. #25
    Tinmar's Avatar
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    Wonder if having CCF pad on top would make a difference? The space blanket on top sure does.

  6. #26
    Senior Member BillyBob58's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by moshe View Post
    Well, I tried it out last night. I set up my HH with the whole super shelter system. Over cover, under cover, foam pad and then put a full length CCF under the HH pad. It was 33 last night and I lasted about an hour before getting too cold. I just don't think it has enough loft to get the R- value.
    I'm sure it helped some and if I had a section of CCF with me anyway, I would use it. Every little bit helps. But I wouldn't put my eggs in this basket.
    Well that is no good if you only lasted an hour at a mere 33F! Did you use the $3 space blanket on top of the HH OCF pad? That is considered part of the system by HH, and I find it absolutely essential below the 40sF. Without that, you will get condensation in the OCF pad and it will be cold IMO. I have done the 30s easily with no added CCF pad, nothing other than the HH OCF pad and space blanket inside the UC, as have many others, but not everyone has as good luck.

    Plus, we do have to keep in mind that the added CCF either won't help much or might actually make things worse.


    Quote Originally Posted by OldMart View Post
    Wonder if having CCF pad on top would make a difference? The space blanket on top sure does.
    Quite possible, something to be experimented with. My worry would be that it would cause the HH OCF pad to sag away from contact with my back or that it would interfere with the fit of the HH pad around the shoulders. But who knows?

    Sadly, I have not been able to test my own idea. What experience has shown does work wonderfully for me is to slip a fleece jacket, down vest, or both down in the UC under the pad. I also like to put my lightest unworn insulation ( wool socks or a balaclava if unworn) on top of the HH pad. And as always, everything under the space blanket.
    For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory that is to be revealed to us....that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now.
    Romans 8:18,21-22

  7. #27
    Senior Member CryOTheWild's Avatar
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    Alright BillyBob58 I got this one covered. The last trip a couple weeks ago was 1F with sub zero wind chills and i am heading out in two weeks again, then for new years, 3 weekends in January, and 2 so far in February.
    Wisconsin Winter Hang 2014 https://www.hammockforums.net/forum/...t=81556&page=2

    "Familiarity breeds love.
    We don't need to save nature we need to love nature.
    The only way people will love nature is if they experience it first hand.
    There is no better way to experience nature than participating in it."

    -Me

  8. #28
    Senior Member CryOTheWild's Avatar
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    I have taken the stock HHSS to wind chills down to -35F and slept comfortably with no xtra pads in any way shape or form. The only things used were the Over cover and undercover and ocf and space blanket aside from my 15F down bag (my only down clothing at the time) I had about 4 or 5 layers on my body. I have learned that space blankets are great at cutting wind but you will most definitely be very uncomfortable if you spend more than 2 nights without removing the moisture that builds up and freezes in your sleeping bag or quilt. I have tried the OCF under and over the space blanket and it has a stiff layer of ice on it each morning. I found that after 3 or 4 nights I was significantly more comfortable by completely excluding the space blanket. with that said, I have a 1/8 inch grey foam material from the hardware store that I believe will work much better as a second layer to the ocf. I may actually punch dozens of small 1/4 inch holes in some areas to allow for more ventilation.
    Wisconsin Winter Hang 2014 https://www.hammockforums.net/forum/...t=81556&page=2

    "Familiarity breeds love.
    We don't need to save nature we need to love nature.
    The only way people will love nature is if they experience it first hand.
    There is no better way to experience nature than participating in it."

    -Me

  9. #29
    dirtwheels's Avatar
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    I'm sure I can't hang with Cryofthewild, pretty sure I won't ever try!

    However last night I tested the SS by adding a 1/8" CCF pad cut to the shape of the SS OCF pad and used the SB as suggested. For top insulation I used a UGQ 40* Flightjacket, a 20" x 30" 1/8" CCF pad in the footbox and a REI self-inflating sit pad under that. Also I placed a down jacket on top of the UQ at the footbox.

    The low was 23*-24*, no wind clear skies.

    I did have a cool spot on my the outside of right upper thigh and when I checked the insulation was in place including the SB. The TQ was also tucked in, adding/shifting the TQ made it tolerable. My feet did get a little cool but I think that was due to lack of attention to detail when I placed the 1/8" foam pad, the previous night with a 3/4 SSUQ they were fine. The difference was the pad was neater and ran from my calves and up and over the top of my feet with the sit pad below that, last night the sit pad was above the foam pad last night and I never really distributed the pad as well.
    The down jacket also shifted away from the end of the foot box.

    Condensation was present, the top of the TQ was quite damp and the down in the top baffle seems to have lost loft from the consecutive nights use. I didn't hang the TQ in the sun to dry, it was left with the top edge tucked between the ridgeline to spread out to dry. There was a line of frozen condensation around the UC about where the end of the OC meet the UC. Some condensation was also present in the SB.

    I am convinced with my 15* I would have been more comfortable but overall I am pleased with the SS performance as being a great value for retail. For bulk I'm unsure how a synthetic UQ would compare and for price I would think you would have to add the cost of the UC/UQP to compare. I know that the 40* 3/4 WL SSUQ with the addition of the SB will equal the performance of the SS pad, and for bulk it has the OCF pad beat by far. And for $135 for the UQ and $35 for a 2QZQ UQP I think that's a space saving deal. I find the SS a fine value at retail and even better if you grab one on sale.

    I want to duplicate the test without the 1/8" pad to see the difference, which it if does eliminates a little bulk making it more competitive.
    Give me more darkness said the blind man,
    Give me more folly said the fool,
    Give me stone silence said the deaf man,
    I didn't believe Sunday School.
    Phil Keaggy

  10. #30
    Senior Member BillyBob58's Avatar
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    DW, were you warm last night at 23F, except for the cool spots you mentioned like your right thigh? Have you had the same cool spots using the HHSS without the added CCF pad? With just the HHSS with HH OCF pad/space blanket, how low have you previously been able to go and stay warm? ( for me, 30F is about it without adding kidney/torso pads and/or fleece jackets etc) Am I asking enough questions for you?

    Any one know the R value of 1/8" CCF? Is it about 0.5? So you would expect about a 5F boost from that?

    You mention "the top of the TQ was quite damp and the down in the top baffle seems to have lost loft from the consecutive nights use." I have had a similar problem when using my down UQs and no VB or space blankets. My breath contacts the top baffle of my UQ, the one nearest my face, and being ice cold huge condensation happens. That is why Shug came up with the fleece frost bib, which I am going to use one of these days. Do you think this is the source of the condensation you report, or do you blame it on the space blanket and/or CCF pad?

    For some reason I have never yet had any significant condensation issues with the HHSS and space blanket no matter how I have configured it, except once when I used no space blanket. Other than condensation from my breath on my TQ, which I get with anything I use, including down UQs.

    The other night, when you used the WL SSUQ underneath the space blanket in place of the HH OCF pad, did you have significant condensation issues?

    Keep up the good work of testing!
    For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory that is to be revealed to us....that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now.
    Romans 8:18,21-22

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