help with uq and uqp

[mountainhanger]

Spent last night outside in backyard with my night owl and zeppelin full length uq and my uqp. Temps were from 33-37 degrees. Stayed toast warm. Had my enlightened equipment tq too. PROBLEM is tho when I awoke this am had the normal condensation on my tq but between my uq and my uqp it was soaked. Now it was misty outside with some light rain but mu uqp was totally wet??? I did have it snugged up pretty tight with the uq. Any sugge or thoughts why it got so wet? The inside of the uq was nice and dry. The outside was good and wet. Only thing I could think of was that the uqp was too tight and and I generated enough body heat to cause serious condensation or i don't know why but the hammock gods were not happy with me. Lol. I was so freaked out that I grabbed it off the hammock and brought it in too dry. The UQ that is!
Thanks for your help

[Redoleary]

I think its a function of a relatively high dew point.

[Shug]

Is it silnylon? Hang it a bit looser.
Shug

[mountainhanger]

I think its a function of a relatively high dew point.

Thanks I certainly can understand that

Is it silnylon? Hang it a bit looser.
Shug

its the breathable one, from 2qzq, and i do believe it is more of condensation as the uq is dry already, again tonight!

[BillyBob58]

Thanks I certainly can understand that


its the breathable one, from 2qzq, and i do believe it is more of condensation as the uq is dry already, again tonight!

Pretty impressive negative results. The good news is that you did not have to pack it up wet and hike all day before setting up the next nights camp.

Condensation can be a perplexing thing. Why one night and not the next? I guess you have already used this set up, or was this the 1st night with the UQP? Plus, you already had 2 breathable shells your body vapor had to pass through(inner and outer UQ shell), so why would adding one more breathable shell cause so much condensation? Or did the moisture some how actually come in from the outside? I'd be real interested to know which one it was for you?

Reminds me of 2 things:
1: when some people have trouble with condensation in the HHSS, even when apparently correctly using the space blanket. While others of of have never seen any. What's up with that?
2: My friend on 2 different trips, one with a TQ (suddenly can't remember what the under insulation was, a pad?) in the 40s-50s and maximum humidity, and another time with a 55F Pea Pod boosted with a pad under the hammock(in the pod) in the 20/30s. Both trips he never saw any moisture, but his down was loosing significant loft by the end of the 5 days. I guess there was internal condensation. On the trip where we both had Pea Pods, I also had a torso sized piece of CCF foam pad either down in the pod or under my legs just for the heck of it. I did not have the same problems. Why not? Who knows?

But, one thing we can all easily observe: when warm vapor (from our bodies or wherever) hits a cold enough surface, it tends to condense into liquid. This can even happen on something as breathable as fleece, as with Shug's fleece frost bib, or even with mosquito netting.

[mountainhanger]

Pretty impressive negative results. The good news is that you did not have to pack it up wet and hike all day before setting up the next nights camp.

Condensation can be a perplexing thing. Why one night and not the next? I guess you have already used this set up, or was this the 1st night with the UQP? Plus, you already had 2 breathable shells your body vapor had to pass through(inner and outer UQ shell), so why would adding one more breathable shell cause so much condensation? Or did the moisture some how actually come in from the outside? I'd be real interested to know which one it was for you?


But, one thing we can all easily observe: when warm vapor (from our bodies or wherever) hits a cold enough surface, it tends to condense into liquid. This can even happen on something as breathable as fleece, as with Shug's fleece frost bib, or even with mosquito netting.

Thanks BIllyBob,
I have came to the conclusion it was a confluence of events..lol
I think Red hit it on the nailhead there with the dew point.. it was high and misty all night with drizzling rain on and off..then i believe i did have the uqp too tight (or drawn up) to the underquilt. Third I believe that once again being too cautious in the need for thermal goodness I was actually creating a way too high of thermal exchange...with the 20* uq full length and no venting along with a 20* tq..
so it was very much alot of dew from nature along with a little help from me,.once i brought the quilt in it dried in just few minutes, going back out there a couple hours later the uqp and the night owl still are damp..
and yes OUTNBACK, dew everywhere and it is still misting.but temps are suppose to drop.. so we will see tonight after work..
all i could think about when i went back out there to rehang quilt and let everything sit for a bit before work..(just to see) was how do those people do it in the northwest where its like this all the time?
i was wondering tho if i left off the uqp at these temps would that help? i do believe so so if it doesnt get too cold tonight i will try this!

but btw i slept great!!!! so all in all still learning and thats really what the backyard lab is for anyway...right?

[dakotaross]

...when warm vapor (from our bodies or wherever) hits a cold enough surface, it tends to condense into liquid...

Basically condensation occurs from lack of evaporation. Normally, there is plenty of warmth, or enough air movement to effect the evaporation process. The high dewpoint means you would need a little greater air movement and/or heat radiation out from the UQ.

Was it a 20 degree UQ? If so, I'm going to hypothesize that you were wearing too many clothes. If that might be the case, let me know and I'll explain.

[OutandBack]

Spent last night outside in backyard with my night owl and zeppelin full length uq and my uqp. Temps were from 33-37 degrees. Stayed toast warm. Had my enlightened equipment tq too. PROBLEM is tho when I awoke this am had the normal condensation on my tq but between my uq and my uqp it was soaked. Now it was misty outside with some light rain but mu uqp was totally wet??? I did have it snugged up pretty tight with the uq. Any sugge or thoughts why it got so wet? The inside of the uq was nice and dry. The outside was good and wet. Only thing I could think of was that the uqp was too tight and and I generated enough body heat to cause serious condensation or i don't know why but the hammock gods were not happy with me. Lol. I was so freaked out that I grabbed it off the hammock and brought it in too dry. The UQ that is!
Thanks for your help

So it never got below freezing the whole night.
Sure sounds like dew to me. The humidity in the air condensing on everything.
I'll bet everything was wet, both sides of the tarp, your car, the house.

[dakotaross]

Sorry, was taking too long with getting my words right and trying to work at the same time and missed your post that it was a 20 UQ.

[dakotaross]

yes it was a 20* full length underquilt..please do explain, as it seems to me that is my hardest area to tweak in..thanks

First of all, it could very well be that you had everything just fine and that you transferred so much heat, that the normally breathable UQP got stopped up with condensed vapor and stopped breathing. I think this what you were suggesting.

However, its hard for me to imagine that being the case in the 30s. I think what might be more likely is that not enough heat was being pulled through the UQ, so that the relatively mild heat that did come through mixed with the micro-climate created by the UQP - an environment created by having the UQP close, but not close enough to affect loft which leaves tiny spaces of air in between.

If the UQ is not getting much heat from you because you have insulating clothes on that trap the heat so its not getting into the UQ efficiently, then what you have is mildly warm air that surrounds you in the inner layer of down of the UQ (because that's all it took to keep you warm), but then you get an UQ that isn't fully filling the entire loft with hot air. Warm air gets pulled through the down and the exterior of the UQ as it is tries to find the cold air, but not with enough gusto to evaporate the heavy moisture-laden air in the micro-climates created by the space between the UQ and UQP.

The other factor is the "breathability" of the UQP. You know how Goretex really only works in dry climates where the moisture can be pulled through the material by the difference between the moist and dry air? Perhaps the ripstop failed to be "breathable" in such moist air, too.

You should expect your 20 UQ to keep you warm enough in those temps that you have to vent on top. If that's not the case, there's a good chance its not efficiently getting your body heat.