Low Temp Limit Testing Thread

[Acer]

when your feet or head is cold,,the rest of you is going to be cold no matter what you do. If your feet was the least sweaty,,need to wipe them down before going to bed and putting on dry socks,,either with damp wipes or alky wipes. Try down booties,,several places sell them but AHE's down booties rock and are super light weight and you can order them over stuffed even. Using a sock,,can give you as much as 10-15 degrees of warmth, but then you will need to compensate with condensation at the colder temps. UQP will give you 5-10 degrees of warmth and keep the wind from robbing heat from your UQ. I like the sock myself but have both. Good luck in your experimentation and hanging and keep working at it. You just need to dial in your comfort zone.

[Metavo]

I've got 3/4 size UQ, that's why I use my pad also in winter.
Here's a pic from my last weekends hang. Outside temp -18 Celsius or about 0 F.
There's no snow and soil was frozen. Used axe to hit one peg down but because it started to play excalibur and I was not king Arthur, I'll have this peg probably in spring.



I was warm as hell. Tried my new sleeping bag, it's rated for -40 Celsius but it's a cheap chinese bag. Down is clumpy and won't disperse properly, that's why I used also my 133g/sqm Climashield TQ.
It was best sleep of last week.

[FLRider]

Conditions: Three nights (originally going to be four) spent at the 4th Annual FL Hang.

• Temperatures: Forecast was lows of 41*, 37*, 43*. Actual recorded was 28*, 23*, 34*.
• Humidity: RH was near 100% all three nights.
• Wind: Light and variable near coldest portion of evening. Maybe 5 MPH to 10 MPH gusts, never more than that.

Gear: Official first field test for clothing system, second field test for underquilt.

• Top Insulation: Poncho liner.
• Bottom Insulation: 20* 5/6 length DIY down underquilt (M50, 850+ FP down, 4" Nanoseeum baffles, 17% overstuff, DIY fixed attachment system)
• Tarp: Tiny diamond asym.
• Head Clothing: Thin stretch polyester balaclava, Thinsulate watch cap.
• Torso Clothing/Top Insulation Booster: Longsleeve Capilene 3 top, 200 wt fleece jacket from WallyWorld, M65 jacket liner with the arms cut off for puffy vest, windshirt from WallyWorld.
• Leg/Foot Clothing: Polypropylene milspec long underwear (old school "Drawers, Cold Weather, Polypropylene"), thick, loose wool socks (Wigwam brand), hiking/biking/running socks (Hiker grade Darn Tough wool socks)
• Hand Clothing: Smartwool liner gloves, DIY convertible fleece mittens.

Results:

• Night One (28* low, 32* at dawn, 5 MPH wind from head end): I was warm, almost too warm. I wore my watchcap, balaclava, liner gloves, both pairs of socks, long underwear bottoms, Cap 3 top, and fleece to bed. The M65 vest went underneath my head/shoulders as an extra wind block.
• Night Two (23* low, wind light and variable): I was warm aside from my toes. I wore all of my upper body clothing except for my mittens and all of my lower body clothing but my hiking socks. My toes got cold and stayed cold past two AM or so.
• Night Three (34* low, 34* at dawn, no wind to speak of): I was warm, except for my head. I wore all of my upper body clothing except my watch cap and mittens (forgot the watch cap by the fire) and all of my lower body clothing except my hiking socks. My head got cold about four AM, but that was fixed by pulling the poncho liner up over my head.

Conclusions: I believe my set-up is most definitely adequate to these temperatures. I would certainly gamble on 'em again, even farther away from shelter. My only change would be to try the bread bag trick for my feet or to add shock cord and a better closure system to my poncho liner to help keep my feet warmer. Other than that, aside from lighter puffy layers, this is a great system for times when I expect to be sitting around more than I usually do. If I was simply going from point A to point B, rather than spending time chatting during the evenings, I might go with a warmer top quilt rather than the extra clothing in order to save weight.

[MDSH]

Hey, Ironchic, try using a hot water bottle, along with all the other good idea offered.

.

[FLRider]

Am I missing something? Am I supposed to have something between me and the Qulit. Would a under quilt protector increase the temperature? Would a travel sock work better? Should I use closed cell foam padding? Could it be the wind? Could the material my under quilt is made with be to thin? I truly would appreciate any helpful input. I am also trying to keep all of my gear light enough for backpacking.

First impressions:

• Adjustment of the underquilt: Try to ensure that your underquilt is snug up against the bottom of the hammock. Try lying in it with just your top quilt and a thin baselayer on a colder day, then get someone to spot check you on fit. Between your spotter checking for gaps and the ability to feel any cold spots due to your thin clothing, you should be able to fit it "just right" for your usual sleeping position.
• Tight clothing: Generally speaking, while tight base layers are good while you're moving (the fit helps to wick sweat and prevent chafing), they are not ideal for sleeping in. You want something just tight enough to contact skin without actually feeling tight--it'll cut off circulation, leading to that cold feeling. This is especially true of socks: one pair of thick, loose socks is probably your best bet, unless you go the vapor barrier route.
• Compression of the insulation: Your down jacket is underneath the top quilt, yes? Perhaps try putting it on top of the quilt, as a draft-blocker and torso booster, rather than wearing it underneath. The weight of the jacket is likely to be less than the top quilt, leading to less compression of the insulation. Kinda spitballing here, but it might be something like that.

Wind and condensation are two other possible factors, but if you've got a reputable set of quilts (and your top quilt most certainly is, from your information), wind and condensation shouldn't be too much of a problem at those temperatures. Especially with your Superfly completely closed.

Hope it helps!

[BillyBob58]

Weather man on tv just said tonite,,that another cold front vortex could be expected in 2 weeks again. So what you do now in your cold weather testing can be done again after we bounce thru a warming spell followed by another blast of cold artic air.

They're ( the shivers) back, and right on cue!

Extremely cold sleeper here. Knowing this about myself when I purchased my under quilt I purchased a 0°. I also purchased a 20° top Qulit both very well-made. My problem is staying warm below 40°, I freeze all night.
I have been struggling now for months trying to figure out what I'm doing wrong. I have watched Shugs videos. They are great btw . I have read a lot on this forum and made changes to the way I hang my qulit and the clothing I wear. This past weekend in Ocala at the Buck Lake hang .The temperature dropped to 31°. I was freezing all night.
This is the list of gear I was using:: 0° UQ down
20 deg TQ down
WBB single layer
Super fly tarp with doors closed
I was wearing long thermals
Hiking pants over them
Two pair of wool socks
Thermal undershirt
Down jacket
Gloves
Fleece beanie
One hot water bottle
My feet were freezing, the rest of my body stayed cold.
Am I missing something? Am I supposed to have something between me and the Qulit. Would a under quilt protector increase the temperature? Would a travel sock work better? Should I use closed cell foam padding? Could it be the wind? Could the material my under quilt is made with be to thin? I truly would appreciate any helpful input. I am also trying to keep all of my gear light enough for backpacking.

when your feet or head is cold,,the rest of you is going to be cold no matter what you do. .

Ironchic, WOW! Cold at 31F with a zero F UQ, 20F TQ plus layers including down jacket? You are either contending with my wife and daughter for world's coldest natured person, or something is major wrong with adjustments!

Lot's of good tips here for you already. But 1st I would like to ask: have you ever been warm camping in such temps when sleeping on the ground? Or did you freeze with otherwise similar equip/temps except replacing a zero UQ with a thick ground pad? The answer to that will tell us a lot about what the most likely cause of your problem is. There is a lot that can go wrong with the adjustment of and draft avoidence with UQs and TQs compared with a mummy bag on the ground. Then again, your equipment might be fine and it might just be you. Sometimes my wife uses my 20F TQs to warm up in a 68F house, for example.

The most glaring thing that jumps out at me, especially since you say you are a "Extremely cold sleeper", is your head insulation. Ever heard the expression "if your feet are cold, put on a hat"? But even more so if you are not up and moving but trying to sleep in a hammock! A lot of people seem to forget that when they go to a ~ 20F rated ~ 2.5" thick(top layer) TQ from a 20F rated 2.5" thick sleeping bag, the sleeping bags rating included a very thick hood and maybe neck collar and can be zipped up to shut out all drafts. Big difference! If you replace that 2.5" or so of insulation around your head/part of face/neck with a fleece cap and loose seal around shoulders and neck, you are really being adventurous! 1st thing you need is the equivalent of a separate sleeping bag hood, like the JRB hood for example. Plus a cap or balaclava and/or neck gator/face mask. IOW, you can loose a ton of heat from your head, and a sign is freezing feet.

Next suggestion is: drafts ( and or gaps) can be a big problem with a maladjusted UQ ( fixable), or with a TQ if you ever move in your sleep(tougher to fix). For that TQ, this was a learning curve for me, I don't seem to have that problem anymore. Also make sure you are able to get the TQ cinched up to avoid drafts around your neck and shoulders.

If the problem is more you and not your equip, unless you want to start stacking 20F and 0F quits, I have a suggestion to you, especially for your feet, from the dark side. It is not popular, some would even say it is the worst thing you can do, but every year I go more and more this way: vapor barrier (VB) clothing. But 1st STOP! Don't even consider it until you have studied up on the threads here and you are confident you can do it correctly. If you do it wrong you will end up wet plus cold, guaranteed! But you can safely do this experiment immediately: unless they are super loose, ditch one pair of socks, or both pairs with feet inside some loose booties. Put on the thinnest synthetic liner sock you can find(any thing non-cotton). Put a pair of bread bags(VB) over this liner sock. Put your feet into the booties, and/or put one loose pair of warm socks over the bread bags, with or without the booties. Or go ahead and use 2 pairs of socks if all will fit loosely over the VB/bread bags.

I have known the addition of VB socks rescue a friend from freezing feet while fishing in under an hour. Recently at ~ 6F, under a 30F TQ, with all of the above(VB socks, 1 pair of wool socks, Polarguard booties) my feet were bad over heating. But I am probably no where near as cold natured as you, plus I had on a JRB hood and additional VB clothing. Still, just that 1 thing might help your feet a lot. It has helped more than a few folks.

I've got 3/4 size UQ, that's why I use my pad also in winter.
Here's a pic from my last weekends hang. Outside temp -18 Celsius or about 0 F.
There's no snow and soil was frozen. Used axe to hit one peg down but because it started to play excalibur and I was not king Arthur, I'll have this peg probably in spring.



I was warm as hell. Tried my new sleeping bag, it's rated for -40 Celsius but it's a cheap chinese bag. Down is clumpy and won't disperse properly, that's why I used also my 133g/sqm Climashield TQ.
It was best sleep of last week.

WOW! Way warm over frozen ground! That is tough when using stakes for sure!

Hey, Ironchic, try using a hot water bottle, along with all the other good idea offered.

.

They can really turn things around on a shivery night! You could even use 2, one at your feet and one in your crotch or on your abdomen! Heat wave! ( just make sure they can not leak!)

[Ironchic]

WOW so much to do during the short cold season we have here in central fla. I will be out trying all the helpful tips you guys have given me. I see you guys with a UQ and tarp in snow, I wouldn't know what to do if it snowed on me. I like the idea of a sock they say it will give me an extra 10 to 15deg inside. Ill work on the lose baselayer thanks FLrider my baselayer is made for cycling. Billybob58 you make a great point about the head gear and TQ v's mummy bag. I never thought about that and yes in a tent on the ground at 35deg in a 15 deg bag I would get cold with air gaps. Ziploc for all my water bottles and ill try a fleece bag for them. Back to the yard I go!!

[Lamboy]

WOW so much to do during the short cold season we have here in central fla. I will be out trying all the helpful tips you guys have given me. I see you guys with a UQ and tarp in snow, I wouldn't know what to do if it snowed on me. I like the idea of a sock they say it will give me an extra 10 to 15deg inside. Ill work on the lose baselayer thanks FLrider my baselayer is made for cycling. Billybob58 you make a great point about the head gear and TQ v's mummy bag. I never thought about that and yes in a tent on the ground at 35deg in a 15 deg bag I would get cold with air gaps. Ziploc for all my water bottles and ill try a fleece bag for them. Back to the yard I go!!

From a former Floridan to another. It is all in your head and layers

[Ironchic]

Lamboy, You could be right this Fla girl is not big on temps below 60deg. However I must be doing something wrong when I hang my UQ. Maybe I have the ends to tight, not sure yet but ill be working on it this weekend.

[priller]

New Personal Best low temp hang:

14*F overnight in the Santa Fe National Forest. Humidity was pretty low. Super calm winds. Under tarp with doors configured and dialed in.

Topquilt is Golite Z30 down
Underquilt is AHE Jarbridge (apex climashield)

Hot water Nalgene

Clothing worn was multi-layered, about 3 layers on top and bottom. Only notable piece of layering was my Golite down vest. Other clothing isn't anything to write home about, just a baselayer and two fleece-ish tops. Merino blend long johns, fleecey sweatpants and adidas shell pant.

Thick poly socks, but just one pair

Baselayer liner and Black Rock Gear down hat on my head.

Second night out it was 18*F.....tarp was configured more open, and in porch mode. I think I subtracted one layer, but added my hardshell jacket with hood, and it worked out well.

I wasn't particularly cold for any extended period of time on either night, but definitely some moments where I wasn't toasty. There were several "checks" throughout the evening where the thought was "you know what, I am pretty warm and comfy right now, AWESOME!"

Side note, as I know it's been brought up: Halfway thru the night, of course you have to pee...but the feeling of the full bladder is almost augmenting the feeling of being cold. Then when I go empty the bladder and get settled back in, I feel supremely warmer than when I originally left the hammock!

Someone es'plain!
trip here https://www.hammockforums.net/forum/...ad.php?t=86750