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  1. #1
    Senior Member SwinginIt's Avatar
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    My thoughts on our vendors and their "issues"

    Sorry grannypat, I know that thread title made you cringe but it wouldn't let me use italics in the title.

    There have been several threads lately about communication issues with Hammock Gear. And there was another vendor a while back that had really bad communication issues and I believe they may have even shut down for a while to revamp and fix things. In these threads there are people that commiserate with the OP, others that bash them for bringing it up, and others that jump to the defense of the vendor like a parent blinded with parental bias that thinks their child can do no harm. (There's no way my child could have done that officer, he's an angel.)These threads all pretty much go the same way with people saying the same things and in the end the vendor steps up and makes it right for the OP and things continue on.

    I'd like to offer up my perspective on the subject. I'm mostly going to be talking about HG because that's who I personally have had the most experience with and they are the current vendor that has been the topic of discussion.

    My history with HG includes the slow communication people have been talking about(my last email to them was never even answered) that happened almost two years ago, so that's not a new thing. I've had customer service issues that were resolved immediately and beyond what I would have expected. And I've ordered straight from their page without the need for communication. So I'm not an outsider looking in. I understand completely where the OP's are coming from.

    Now here's where I'd like to broaden the perspective a bit. I disagree with the golden child perspective of "they're so awesome they can do no harm". And I disagree with the "you shouldn't be complaining on here, you should only say nice things" crowd. Those kinds of posts are in no way helpful.

    I see things like this: HG could solve their communication issues right this second if they wanted to. All they have to do is stop taking custom orders. It's their desire to give each and every customer exactly what they want that has created a situation where not only is their gear in high demand but so is their personal attention. The easiest thing for them to do is say "No more, here is what we offer, pick one." That is my biggest fear is that our constant demand for personal attention from our vendors to answer our every little question is going to cause them to stop offering personal service. That is the thing I love about cottage vendors, personal service and top quality gear. It's not customer service, lots of places have good customer service, even big box stores do. It's certainly not just a cottage thing like we tend to delude ourselves into thinking. The draw of cottage is personal service and quality. But at the rate we as customers are driving things we may lose some of that personal service in order for them to maintain the standard of quality and customer service.

    I think HG is becoming a victim of it's own success and they may have reached that point in business where it's time to step up to the next level or scale things back. I personally would like to see the former happen before the latter. So I'd like to offer up a few ideas to help in that arena.

    First we as customers could make it a point to bring our questions here first instead straight to them. I'm sure a lot of the questions they are asked repeatedly could easily be answered by those of us that already own their gear. And if someone does ask a question on here we should answer them instead of telling them to just email or call Adam. That could potentially reduce a fair amount of email traffic.

    Second maybe Adam could create a FAQ page that is prominently displayed on the website. Maybe even post a FAQ sticky on here as well.

    Third maybe conduct a poll here to see how many people have gone elsewhere to make a purchase because of slow or no communication. With the idea being that if enough people are going elsewhere it may be more profitable to hire someone to handle communication than to not have someone.

    Lastly they could take a page from Papasmurf who is on the frontline of creating the ultimate hammock gear buying experience.

    Now all of this doesn't just apply to HG, it could happen to any of our vendors that become in as high of demand as they have. Maybe all of this is just the early morning ramblings of someone that should have stayed in bed. It's certainly starting to feel that way, my train of thought is starting to sputter and veer off the tracks.

    So let me bring this novel to an end by saying instead of rehashing the same threads with the same camps making the same posts lets look at this from a broader perspective and see if there's anything we can do as a community to help alleviate the problem on our end because if our incessant demand for personal attention goes unchecked this is the kind of thing that could lead to a change in how our vendors operate around here. I realize that seems kinda doomsdayish so I guess I have officially ventured into the realm of sleep deprived rambling. I'll leave now before any credibility this post may have started with is lost.
    "As a well spent day brings happy sleep, a well spent life brings happy death." -Da Vinci

  2. #2
    Senior Member Redpath's Avatar
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    I have been thinking about this subject as well. As a restaurant owner, I have the advantage, and disadvantage of internet reviews. In this age of computer technology, everyone is a critic. It used to be that critics were professionals that went to a restaurant 2 or 3 times, then made a qualified review of the place. Now we, as business owners, have to realize that everyone is a critic, and can air their experiences online for the whole world to see. Thankfully, in my case 95% of my reviews are positive. I always feel bad and cringe when I see a negative one though, and take it very personally. I always wonder if it will keep people from coming to my establishment. I guess I'm just trying to offer a business perspective, and to say that as business owners we need to "suck it up" and realize this is the way it is now. It has, however, made me kiss more ***, and adhere to the "customer is always right" creed. (Which in reality is a load of horse****) Because that jerk customer who swears his steak was overdone (but was cooked perfectly) can write a nasty review that hurts your business. Oh well I'm starting to ramble as well, time for some more coffee.
    You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows~Bob Dylan
    http://carnegies-restaurant.com

  3. #3
    Senior Member SwinginIt's Avatar
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    Yeah the new age of technology can really help or hurt a business. I make a lot of purchasing decisions based on internet reviews. But I make those decisions based on the reviews as a whole and not individual reviews. I know that there are people out there that will always find something wrong and that now they can post reviews based on their skewed perceptions. So I ignore individual reviews, but when the same complaint keeps popping up over and over then it gains some credibility. Kind of like the problem people have been having communicating with HG. It's beginning to happen enough that it's no longer a one off, someone slipped through the cracks thing but is a real issue.
    "As a well spent day brings happy sleep, a well spent life brings happy death." -Da Vinci

  4. #4
    Senior Member WV's Avatar
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    SwingenIt, I'm grateful for your thoughtful post, even if (oddly) I disagree with some of what you propose. I think we should be encouraged as individuals to use this forum to educate ourselves about vendors of the gear we fancy, just as we do about the gear itself. However, as a community, HF should feel no responsibility to further that process by doing polls or functioning as a "complaints department." Caveat emptor.

    In a year or so, with luck, I may start selling hammocks, and I have already decided that my business model will be patterned after Leigh-lo's (Thanks.) I will make some hammocks, and then sell from stock on hand, but will not take orders. One big reason for doing this is the feeling that I could never match the level of customer service of our current vendors, and my inevitable failures to do so if I attempted it would not be what people come to HF to read about. There are other reasons, of course, such as extremely small scale ("tiny cottage") and unlikelihood of actual profits, but it's what I want to do. I will not be conducting business on Hammockforums.

  5. #5
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    I was also a business owner and also did 30 years + of customer service work so I feel fairly qualified to discuss this topic.

    First off, IMO, in the day of computers there is no acceptable excuse for not communicating with your customer short of death. Yes, I know that is not going to go down well with some folks but everyone has access to a computer or they would not be posting/running a web site.

    It takes less than 5 minutes to update a banner on a web page to provide information to your customer base. If you don't have the skills to update your own site, then do it on Face Book or Twitter and your order confirmation email should tell the customer how to expect communications from you. Lack of communications is just not acceptable ever in my book. I am okay if they say something like "running 3 months behind in order fulfillment so your next communications should be in 3 to 4 months" but say something!

    Having been a small business owner, I can tell you from experience it is hard not to accept orders because it is how you feed your family. I do however like and appreciate the way I have seen some of the vendors handle the issue.

    When you go to place your order they tell you they are running X number of days/months/years behind and give you the chance to opt out of placing an order. Then they issue you an order number which updates a spreadsheet/database on their web site and as orders are competed the web site will mark the order finished and move to the next special order.

    Many of the cottage vendors also have a "grab bag" of smaller/non custom items that they offer on a first come first serve basis. In many cases these are items they can and do manufacture as time permits when they are in wait cycles on their custom items. These items help them keep cash coming in while they are in a hold pattern for materials to come in.

    I fully agree that every vendor, cottage or Fortune 500, should offer a FAQ if they have a web page. It is a great way for us all to understand their process and to set expectations. Along with this the vendor should have a check box that say something like "I have read and understand the FAQ and ordering process of this XX company."

    Too many times the customer fails to read the information available to them and then becomes disgruntled with a vendor because they failed to meet some expectation that is only in the customer's head. I am not saying this has or has not happened in the case of HG but I am saying this does happen more times than a customer cares to admit.

    Okay I am now jumping down off my soap box and handing it over to the next person

  6. #6
    Senior Member BillyBob58's Avatar
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    Does JRB have any customer service(CS) issues? They must, no one is perfect, but I have not experienced or heard of any.

    Then again, they don't do the kind of custom orders you mention for HG, so that may work in their favor. Still, I decided I wanted to take advantage of a sale and finally get a Sierra Sniveller after all these years to go with my MWs. At the time I PMed my order, it was only a shell and I had to specify details like fill power, activ dry, overstuff, etc. I got a call the next morning from one of the Jacks to confirm these details before they finished the product, get the final price and pay them via PayPal. Then, if memory is serving me correctly, I got an e-mail that the item had shipped THAT AFTERNOON! Are you kidding me? Then I had the product in a couple of days, usual excellent quality. I have had about 6 other JRB products(hammocks,quilts,hood,tarp,UQs) over 7 years and the experience has always been similar. I have also had great CS with other vendors, but I'm not sure how JRB could improve it much, just based on my past experience.

  7. #7
    Senior Member Ratdog's Avatar
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    Maybe we should all rotate through a volunteer Customer Support position for each of the paying vendors here on HF. We could take calls routed by the Interweb, answer emails in a generic account.

    Then maybe we could have another Operations position that volunteers to work the cottage vendor's supply ordering, scheduling, integrate their personal life, any ancillary professional obligations, maybe babysit the kids or help them with their homework so they can get back to sewing.

    Zzzzzzzzzzzzzz...

    The Cottage vendor conducts business as they are able. They will change, grow, improve as they see fit. By virtue of paying for a vendor spot on HF, they reap the rewards of exposure and the tribulations of the internet populus.

    I could offer HG or anyone else an integrated CRM solution with order, supply, manufacturing visibility and max'd out customer updates by email, txt or robocall all in a nifty PHP package backended by some SQL DB or a Joomla/Drupal/Wordpress module. Heck, I'd do it for free (eh, or maybe for a piece of bartered gear) if they hosted the site w/ my hosting service. No doubt plenty of others could do this as well.

    Point is, it's their business, not "ours". "We" have zero insight to their daily goings ons and decision processes. Stating that "they" could answer any email, only takes 5 mins is a load of bunk. Reminds me of the Gf complaining about not answering a "good morning" txt msg. Yes it is a choice not to answer every email, but folks should not presume they understand why that happens or that somehow there is an easy fix.

    Being a small business person means doing it your own way, making the choices. Grow big enough and you may face the difficult choice to do it someone else's way. Customers are always the focus, without them there is no business, but dang sure they won't tell me how to run my business. They will help highlight areas for improvement or change, right up until the prices increase.

    Sure I like the potential visibility during the manufacturing process. Porsche offers a nice little package if you want to travel to Stuttgart and watch your baby birthed. Me, I want the keys and to drive the heck out of it for the next 20 years.

    I order stuff, get what I want. If it isn't what I expected, I work it out. If I want it fast, I say so. Haven't been disappointed to date with any vendor. Have a tough time remembering if anyone has an open issue that was never resolved.

    I'm not a fan of letting the public at large know that I will be away from home for several days, a week or whatever. Emails wait until I return, apologies made, life goes on. Share that information with 50,000 of your closest friends? I think not. This is but one circumstance that can impact communication, could describe dozens of others.

    Just let your money do the talking, spend where you get that warm fuzzy or where you get that killer piece of gear or if your lucky, the place that offers you both.

    The market will out, the rest is noise.
    Last edited by Ratdog; 02-09-2014 at 19:52. Reason: My spelling sucks only slightly less than my grammer
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  8. #8
    Senior Member Wkerber's Avatar
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    It's pretty simple really. It's 2014 and people want instant gratification and they want it now. There are devices everywhere within hands reach for sharing information instantaneously, 24/7 and whole lot of opinions to go with them. As a business owner, your success will depend on how well you deal with that and the strategic decisions you make investing in your business. Add some technology as Ratdog says or add people to cover peak time and eliminate some points of failure..or I'm comfortable where I am having a hiccup every now and then??

    For me, I'm never going to bring up my issues with a small vendor on this forum. Life is just too short to get so aggravated with the small stuff.
    Bill

  9. #9
    Senior Member Randy's Avatar
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    I normally dont engage with these types of posts. I really dont care what year it is or how much techno is out there.
    I dont think HF or any other board should be used for a platform to vent this type of concern.
    Maybe I am alittle more gruff at my age...
    "Proud Pound Hawg"
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  10. #10
    Senior Member Debi Jaytee's Avatar
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    I feel that if you have an issue with a vendor, here or anywhere, you should take it up with that vendor and leave it at that. Bashing them on a public forum where they do most of their business is not how this should be handled. Not only is this a family friendly forum, but it's a very respectful forum - where we encourage mutual respect for one another. Vendor bashing is disrespectful, and should not be tolerated.
    Debi

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