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  1. #1
    Member Meriadoc's Avatar
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    Adding fill to a quilt: Fill power question and others!

    So I decided to increase the fill on my 20 degree top quilt instead of purchasing a sleeping bag. Here are my questions, starting with the problem statement:

    Problem statement:
    After many nights of use on my thru (150?) the down no longer filled the quilt. I had washed it at least twice and tried to dry it every day. Parts of the quilt no longer filled with down and I was left a bit cold and soon changed to a zero degree bag instead. I would like to add fill to increase the quilt's loft when it is damp or dirty and to stop the down from sliding around.

    Facts:
    20 degree quilt by LeighLo (great quilt! see the part about 150+ nights.)
    Fabric is Momentum and (nylon - I think? I don't remember.)
    850+ fill down
    Karo baffles are used for the center of the quilt

    Questions:
    (1) What would be the best down to use for the purpose of increasing loft for when it is damp (from humidity or condensation) or dirty?

    (2)
    What would be the best down to use for the purpose of pinning the insulation in place?

    (3) If I decide to mix down fill (let's say, from a pillow), how do I do it? Is it feasible to load the additional down into the end of the quilt and smoosh it around to mix it? Should I tumble it in a dryer? Wash it in a washer?

    (4) I do not have a sewing machine. How tight should my hand stitches be to keep the down penned inside? Can I use polyester thread or should I find some nylon thread?

    (5)
    If I rip the seams with a seam ripper, will I be able to sew the old seam back together well enough for it to be strong and prevent the down from escaping?
    "Not all those who wander are lost."
    Appalachian Trail Thru Hike Blog

  2. #2
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    It might be more cost effective to sell as-is and replace with a quilt that holds up better when long trail backpacking. A different baffle design and water resistant down would probably solve your issues. LeighLo quilts seem to sell well here.

  3. #3
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    I was under the impression that most types of down are dry clean only... Any down comforter I have ever had over the years has never been able to be washed in my machine, or dried in a tumble dryer. This is why I am thinking of taking the hit in the wallet, and going with long strand silk duvets, to do a handful of DIY projects.

  4. #4
    Member Meriadoc's Avatar
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    Down can be washed in a front loading machine with the appropriate detergent. Think a special down detergent or a detergent free of perfumes, dyes, bleaches, and softeners. The agitator in a top loading machine can tear the internal baffles which is why a front loading machine is recommended. Down can be dried in a tumble dryer by adding a couple of tennis balls or similar agitators to break apart down clumps.

    From what I recollect, dry cleaning down can actually remove protective oils. My memory is a little fuzzy on that.
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  5. #5
    Member Meriadoc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by genixia View Post
    It might be more cost effective to sell as-is and replace with a quilt that holds up better when long trail backpacking. A different baffle design and water resistant down would probably solve your issues. LeighLo quilts seem to sell well here.
    I suppose I might sell both my TQ and UQ and purchase a new quilt or sleeping bag but something in me rebels at the thought. I'd rather improve what I have than purchase new.

    I don't think I would be comfortable selling the TQ for more than $100. It is in excellent shape but I have used it for quite a few nights.
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  6. #6
    Member Meriadoc's Avatar
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    Any takers on mixing the down types? Is it a good idea? Bad idea? I know lower fill down will by necessity be heavier to achieve the same warmth. But I have seen elsewhere passing references to using lower fill down or even feathers to provide some structure for the highest quality down.
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meriadoc View Post
    Any takers on mixing the down types? Is it a good idea? Bad idea? I know lower fill down will by necessity be heavier to achieve the same warmth. But I have seen elsewhere passing references to using lower fill down or even feathers to provide some structure for the highest quality down.
    Im not sure about mixing down together, but it seems to me that the problem with your down shifting around will present itself again regardless, leaving you cold.

  8. #8
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    OK, Since you seem intent on this, I'll try to be more helpful.

    Quote Originally Posted by Meriadoc View Post
    Questions:
    (1) What would be the best down to use for the purpose of increasing loft for when it is damp (from humidity or condensation) or dirty?

    (2)
    What would be the best down to use for the purpose of pinning the insulation in place?

    (3) If I decide to mix down fill (let's say, from a pillow), how do I do it? Is it feasible to load the additional down into the end of the quilt and smoosh it around to mix it? Should I tumble it in a dryer? Wash it in a washer?

    (4) I do not have a sewing machine. How tight should my hand stitches be to keep the down penned inside? Can I use polyester thread or should I find some nylon thread?

    (5)
    If I rip the seams with a seam ripper, will I be able to sew the old seam back together well enough for it to be strong and prevent the down from escaping?
    1. ActiveDri or DriDown. It's more expensive than regular down, but will resist moisture. I wonder whether 20% DriDown amongst 80% regular would have a major effect though, vs just adding 20% more regular down. I'd recommend 800FP reclaimed from a My Luxe pillow (ebay) as it is extremely cost effective, and likely to be a reasonable match to your existing down.

    2. I don't think it matters. Baffle Design (which you can't easily change) is what matters here.

    3. Since you have Karo baffles, and starting with a clean unused pillow, I'd recommend just stuffing the desired amount into the easiest place you can and worry about redistribution after it's sealed. It's easier to do when the handfuls of down are still somewhat compacted (as they will be in a firm pillow).

    4. We all use polyester with our machines - I don't see why hand sewing would need nylon instead. Just avoid cotton or anything blended with cotton. I would attempt to stitch a similar spacing to the existing stitching. I'd probably try to double stitch it too, tracing back along the seam through the same holes on the other side. The seam should be rolled or folded - and the it's the roll/fold that will keep the down in, not the stitching.

    5. I can't speak to your sewing abilities, but I'd be comfortable carefully ripping a rolled seam and resewing it. I'd recommend ripping only as much as you need to in order to stuff, and don't forget to lock the remaining ends of the ripped seam. You do this by being careful as you pick the final inch so that you end up with inch long threads from each side. Take both threads to the same side (or middle) and knot them together.

  9. #9
    Member Meriadoc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cfi on the fly View Post
    Im not sure about mixing down together, but it seems to me that the problem with your down shifting around will present itself again regardless, leaving you cold.
    Hmm. I might be using the wrong terminology here. I have three pieces of equipment that use down. Two are the TQ and UQ. The third is a jacket from Montbell. The baffles on the jacket loft much more quickly and to the point that the baffles bulge. The baffles on the quilt only bulge if it's left to loft for a while (hours to days). This emptier space is why I think I have issues with down shifting. The long regular baffles in the quilt are where I tend to have the most issues with down sliding all the way to one end. I guess what I am really talking about is overstuffing the down to help it loft better and I am assuming that will still help it loft better after a little condensation gets in there.

    Quote Originally Posted by genixia View Post
    OK, Since you seem intent on this, I'll try to be more helpful.
    {snip lots of good stuff}
    Very helpful! Thank you Genixia. You gave me a good bit to think about and if I do use the 800 fill power, I understand what you mean about cost effectiveness.

    As well, I'm really glad you mentioned the rolled seam because I would have likely erred there.
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  10. #10
    Member Meriadoc's Avatar
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    After all of that . . .

    On WB a very nice 15 degree bag was on sale. I decided to jump on it and sell my UQ to finance it. I'll nest the 20 degree TQ on top and see how warm that keeps me.

    Also, I ordered some NikWax down wash to see if maybe some of those detergents I used (the free and clear ones) left a residue that was impairing the loft. Somewhere along the line I read that simply putting down in the dryer can restore the loft too. Lo an behold, my TQ is bulging like mad without even using the down wash yet.

    I blame my faulty memory. It must be so long since I saw the down looking like that that I forgot it ever did. Happy ending: a sleeping bag on the way and a restored TQ.

    Now to sell that UQ . . .

    ***Ahem***
    Quote Originally Posted by genixia View Post
    It might be more cost effective to sell as-is and replace with a quilt that holds up better when long trail backpacking. A different baffle design and water resistant down would probably solve your issues. LeighLo quilts seem to sell well here.
    Someone was right!

    Thanks Genixia. It just took a couple days for things to shake out and make your original comment true. Sorry for the stubbornness .
    "Not all those who wander are lost."
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