Hammock comparison questions

**east_stingray** · 06-09-2009, 21:06

I think you might have gotten the idea somewhere that you need an undercover to stay dry. That's not the case. It might help if you don't have a very big tarp and are getting ground splatter (like the HH tarp), but if you buy a WB and one of his or OES tarps, you can get by just fine with no undercover (I don't think very many people have made undercovers for the BB, and a LOT of people here own them).

Just to give you a different perspective, I ordered a yeti with my BB because of the big fuss everyone makes about quilts. Honestly, I think the hammock is just as comfortable, if not MORE so with a pad. I've come close to selling my yeti on here a few times just because of the price difference between it and the $8 wal-mart pad. I am generally a hot person, and I don't have very many nights in the BB yet, so perhaps sweating (due to the pad) will become a problem for me. That's part of the reason I'm hanging onto the quilt for now.

**cavediver2** · 06-09-2009, 22:57

very very interesting thread. very well laid out and a lot of good questions. I have been sitting here quietly listing to what you all have said. I must admit as a loyal Clark owner it was very interesting reading everyone's input. I can say with out a doubt I wish that when I had ordered my first of 3 Clarks there was so much input about those same questions that have been brought up and the reviews that have been done on so many different brands lately and all the video's showing off all the different brands makes and models over the last year. When I posted the first video on here I would have never thought that it would have transpired to what Ultimately has become a wealth of information for experienced hangers or beginners I am constantly amazed at what people do on here and for that I am glad to be a part of.

Having said that I am very proud to call my self a Clark owner and would not change that for anything out there on the market. But in turn I also have been very very proud to call my self a Black Bird owner as well. Both of these Hammocks have served me very well on a regular bases. I even have been using my Black Bird more and more.

I think that what Cannibal and others have said is a true statement to the quality of both hammocks. I find my self more and more so glad that I went with a cottage owned company for my hammocks than to get one made in mass production made over sea's. The quality is so much better when it is made piece by piece and I think the QC is so much better then.

I have put my Clarks through living HELL for more times than I can count and they have fared very well I have since done the same with the BB and will continue to do it. The one thing that I have missed is doing temperatures in the BB that I have done in the clark. BUT I WILL VERY SOON....

In the end I think that the original poster has done allot of work in researching this hammock phenomenon that all of us are part of.
I have said this to so many people that have emailed or PM me with questions about the Clarks that is " put it to pen and paper price wise,comfort wise,workmanship wise and all the other things that it will take to make things work for what ever conditions you are going to put the hammock through and do your home work and in the end you should have a real thorough idea of what its going to take money wise , and equipment wise."

I love the fact that the original poster has done that and hope that they will come up with what will work for them.

again great thread and I will continue reading it to see how this turns out.
keep up the good work everyone I am back to lurking the forum again you learn so much when not talking.

see you cats around the milk bowl........

**BillyBob58** · 06-10-2009, 20:49

Originally Posted by east_stingray

I think you might have gotten the idea somewhere that you need an undercover to stay dry. That's not the case. It might help if you don't have a very big tarp and are getting ground splatter (like the HH tarp), but if you buy a WB and one of his or OES tarps, you can get by just fine with no undercover (I don't think very many people have made undercovers for the BB, and a LOT of people here own them).

Just to give you a different perspective, I ordered a yeti with my BB because of the big fuss everyone makes about quilts. Honestly, I think the hammock is just as comfortable, if not MORE so with a pad. I've come close to selling my yeti on here a few times just because of the price difference between it and the $8 wal-mart pad. I am generally a hot person, and I don't have very many nights in the BB yet, so perhaps sweating (due to the pad) will become a problem for me. That's part of the reason I'm hanging onto the quilt for now.

HMMMMM! Very interesting! I will have to experiment further with a pad in the BB, as well as in the JRB. I recently slept with a torso length WM pad in the JRB BMBH. I remember I was much impressed that I could not tell any dif in the way the hammock felt. BUT, the next morning when I got up, I had a very slight back ache, which has never happened with this or any hammock. So I couldn't help but wonder if it was caused by the pad. But then again, I may have slightly hurt my back the day before or something, and just didn't realize it. But as far as how comfortable it felt, it was just fine, with no real decrease in comfort that I could tell.

**CoyoteWanderer** · 06-12-2009, 13:17

Just when you think you're getting closer to the end of the tunnel.

Cavediver, thanks for the kind words.

Originally Posted by east_stingray

I think you might have gotten the idea somewhere that you need an undercover to stay dry. That's not the case. It might help if you don't have a very big tarp and are getting ground splatter (like the HH tarp), but if you buy a WB and one of his or OES tarps, you can get by just fine with no undercover (I don't think very many people have made undercovers for the BB, and a LOT of people here own them).

Just to give you a different perspective, I ordered a yeti with my BB because of the big fuss everyone makes about quilts. Honestly, I think the hammock is just as comfortable, if not MORE so with a pad. I've come close to selling my yeti on here a few times just because of the price difference between it and the $8 wal-mart pad. I am generally a hot person, and I don't have very many nights in the BB yet, so perhaps sweating (due to the pad) will become a problem for me. That's part of the reason I'm hanging onto the quilt for now.

Nope, I haven't thought too much about splatter, I see fewer posts on splatter than I do on ground fog, something else I am choosing to ignore. I may find that my tarp is too small and I get splatter but that hasn't really been my consideration. I have been mostly interested in the general insulation systems, comfort and functions of the hammock and how each hammock design supports those goals.

Thanks for the counter example of the pad in the BB. I tend to sleep warm as well.

Originally Posted by BillyBob58

Interesting post and thoughts!

When you say: "The double-layer should be comparable to the SS in terms of function.", I'm thinking "not exactly". Only in the sense of keeping warm, then they might be comparable. But there is a potentially big difference- comparing a CCF pad to an UQ. A lot of folks( definitely not all) hate the feel and comfort aspect of a CCF pad in a hammock( even in a pad pocket, though this is IMO a big improvement over a pad in a single layer hammock). While the HH SS, regardless of whatever drawbacks it might have, in my experience is directly comparable(as far as back comfort goes) to any other UQ. Other than an increase in warmth, I can not tell any difference in feel ( back comfort) with the SS or with out it, just like with any other UQ. Having said that, I think the BB manages a pad better than most any other hammock than the JRB Bridge hammock. But it is still a closed cell pad, and not every one will put up with the different feel of a pad compared to the feel of the hammock without a pad. And that's before you even get to the back sweaters out there!

In the end, the double layer of the BB is nothing more than a system to make a closed cell foam pad manageable in a hammock, and it does a fine job of that. A 4 oz Speer SPE also does a fine job of pad management, and the best of all is the JRB BMBH. But it is still a CCF pad ( or a Thermarest model same problems). While the HHSS, by suspending an OPEN cell foam pad UNDERNEATH the hammock ( so that it does not actually support any body weight, and is barely in contact with the user's body) has no CCF pad feel at all, rather it feels like an UQ. So to more directly compare the feel of these two you would actually need to add some sort of UQ to the BB, IMO. ( BTW, I own and love a WBBB, as well as a HHSS( still quite a fan of it), a Speer SPE, and a JRB BMBH( great comfort), among others. As well as various quilts and pads. So I am basing these thoughts simply on my personal observations. YMMV, of course!

Because of numerous folks who do not care for pads in hammocks, you will notice that the majority of BB users are using some form of UQ, mainly a Yeti.

Thanks BillyBob. You caught me on an assumption. When I looked at the HH/SS I had thought that space between the hammock and the undercover was completely due to there being no one in the hammock and that once someone was in the hammock that there would be little to no difference to a double layer. Now that you mention it, I didn't notice the pad at all when I lay in the HH/SS but I also assumed this was a function of that particular pad. The open cell foam should be softer. Also less insulating than a comparable weight CCF pad.

I didn't like trying to use my thermarest mattress in my peak hammock but I decided that the thermarest, even the prolite, was ill suited to that use, a foam pad would have worked better and that a pocket to hold the pad in would take away most of the discomfort, depending on how much it moved around. I could certainly see a reason to make a pad that is differently shaped than the standard camping mats as a way to make pad movement not be an issue.

So, Billybob indicates that a SS is more comparable in comfort to an UQ than a pad in a double layer. This makes sense to me from both the description and seeing a HH/SS. It also seems like there would be an air pocket in the SS undercover as it has been described.

Questions:
1) Is there an airpocket with the SS - does it affect warmth negatively or positively?
2) Does anyone with a HH/SS use a pad other than the one supplied and does it affect your comfort at all?

**BillyBob58** · 06-12-2009, 16:49

Originally Posted by CoyoteWanderer

......................
So, Billybob indicates that a SS is more comparable in comfort to an UQ than a pad in a double layer. This makes sense to me from both the description and seeing a HH/SS. It also seems like there would be an air pocket in the SS undercover as it has been described.

Questions:
1) Is there an airpocket with the SS - does it affect warmth negatively or positively?
2) Does anyone with a HH/SS use a pad other than the one supplied and does it affect your comfort at all?

There is an air pocket under the pad, between the pad and UC, though it is pretty small, depending on which part of the UC you are looking at as well as how tight you have the UC adjusted. This is the space used for adding various items like synthetic or down jackets or whatever extra you might have available- that you are not already sleeping in.

However the open cell foam pad itself, and the space blanket, and whatever light items you might put on top of the of the pad ( maybe socks or balaclava whatever) will be snug right up against your back. There might be a gap under your feet or legs, depending on adjustments, though often times there is not.

TeeDee, though ( I think) strictly a bridge hammock user now, used to describe using very flexible Gossamer Gear pads in a "T" formation for extra warmth at the shoulders, on top of the HH OCF pad. He said it worked very well and gave a real nice warmth boost. I've never tried it.

**CoyoteWanderer** · 06-15-2009, 17:27

Wow,

Tough spot - that is actually a difficult consideration. Is the HH/SS more comfortable than a BB with a pad? That would be my likely use of the BB until I can afford/make/need an UQ.

Both camps in - many people don't like pads, stingray says the BB is just as comfortable with a pad as an UQ.

Well, I think this makes it a much closer decision. In the end however, I think I will stick with my previous assessment.

Thanks all.

CoyoteWanderer

**BillyBob58** · 06-15-2009, 21:09

Well, if a person can tolerate a pad and still be mostly as comfortable ( and still way more comfortable than any thing on the ground for most hammock lovers anyway), there are some distinct advantages.

#1 of course is cost, or lack of same. Plus you are all set if you have to go to ground for some reason, or use a shelter. They are bombproof, and there are no worries about getting them wet. You will probably do just fine with a pad, especially in the right hammock.