Page 5 of 8 FirstFirst ... 34567 ... LastLast
Results 41 to 50 of 72

Thread: Done With It

  1. #41
    Member Deerfight's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Spring Creek, Nv
    Tarp
    Noah's 12
    Insulation
    Greylock 4
    Suspension
    Whoopie
    Posts
    51
    Quote Originally Posted by FLRider View Post
    It depends on what temperatures you decide to camp in most of the time. If they're at or above ~20* F, then go with the Greylock 3. If they're below ~20*, then the Greylock 4 will be a better bet.

    That being said, I can't see switching from one temp rating of an underquilt to another temp rating on the same underquilt design simplifying your load. Lightening it, yes. Simplifying it, no.

    What is it that isn't simple about hammocks that's giving you trouble? That, right there, will help us to identify and (hopefully) help solve your problems. Is it a lack of trees (I doubt it, given your statement about not having problems finding trees a couple posts back)? Is it the fiddle factor associated with getting a 3/4 length underquilt dialed in? Is it the use of a pad under your feet? Is it the difficulty of using a sleeping bag in an hammock? Is it not having a good lie when you've hung your hammock? Is it troubles with hanging your tarp?

    There are many places where "not simple" could be applied to an hammock system, but the same could be said for tents. It's just a matter of figuring out what's going wrong, and then making some corrections for the problem.

    Please don't take this as antagonistic: I'm just trying to narrow down your issues aside from weight, the better to help you with them.

    Hope it helps!
    So here are the problems I see and have found----
    Fiddle Factor
    Number of Pieces of Gear
    Ridgelines
    Bug Protection

    So yeah. Any suggestions on simplifying and narrowing that stuff down would be amazing!!
    "And here we see a wily bovine in it's natural habitat, always vigilant..." My Father

    ಠ_ಠ-When I see a good hang

  2. #42
    Senior Member FLRider's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Gainesville, FL
    Hammock
    DIY Gathered End
    Tarp
    DIY Asym
    Insulation
    DIY Modular Quilt
    Suspension
    Whoopies/MSH
    Posts
    4,471
    Images
    14
    Quote Originally Posted by Deerfight View Post
    So here are the problems I see and have found----
    Fiddle Factor
    Number of Pieces of Gear
    Ridgelines
    Bug Protection

    So yeah. Any suggestions on simplifying and narrowing that stuff down would be amazing!!
    Let's take these in reverse order, as I think that will make the most sense...

    Bug protection with an hammock is no harder than with a tent. There are a multitude of different ways to keep the skeeters out, but the majority of 'em involve a net of one sort or another. There are two major types of bug nets: permanently installed (such as on the Hennessy, Warbonnet, Clark, and Dream Hammock lines), usually using a zipper closure; and detachable (such as the ENO net or the BIAS Buginator). The permanently installed nets are chosen when you choose your hammock; I'm going to assume that you chose one that doesn't have a net installed, since you're asking about them.

    Detachable bug nets come in three major categories (though there are numerous ones that these don't cover, they aren't quite as common): ones that are a tube sock (such as the Dream Hammock tube net or Sgt. Rock's homemade one) that slides over the hammock and cinches down at one end; ones that use a shock cord closure of some sort (like Fronkey's bottom-entry net or the Top Entry Detachable [TED] net); and ones that use a zipper (such as the ENO net or Warbonnet's Traveler net).

    Of the three, there are plusses and minuses to each. The tube nets are super-lightweight but do require you to be able to reach up to your hammock's whipping end to tighten them down. The shock cord nets are slightly heavier but are stupid easy to use, though they do have a bit of a learning curve. The zipper nets are about the same weight as the shock cord nets but have a tendency to fail at the zipper if treated roughly.

    Any of those three will do you. What you need to ask yourself is what's important in a net: weight, ease-of-use, or familiarity. If it's weight, then the tube net is your best bet. If it's ease-of-use once you're familiar with it, then the shock cord net is probably your best bet. If it's familiarity of the closure system, then a zippered net is probably best.



    I'm not sure just what about ridgelines is troubling you? Is it the idea of using one? (And which kind?) Is it the way the word is thrown around here for multiple items?

    The use of a Continuous Ridge Line (often abbreviated to CRL) is fairly easy. What it does is allow you to adjust your tarp to center it over your hammock without having to tie and retie knots on both ends every time you adjust. Tie one end, tie the other, and adjust by sliding the tarp on the ridgeline.

    The use of a Structural Ridge Line (often abbreviated to SRL) is also fairly easy. It takes up the strain of your suspension pulling the hammock body beyond its ideal sag limit (the point at which lying in the hammock becomes difficult due to the hammock being pulled too far horizontally). It's literally a set-and-forget device. Once you've got it dialed in (and most commercial hammocks will have this done for you; otherwise, start with a non-stretch cordage at just longer than ~83% of the hammock body length and tie it off to both suspensions where they meet the whipping ends, then play with the length until it feels right), you don't have to do a thing to use it. You just need to set your hammock up. That's it.

    The use of a non-structural ridgeline (no abbreviation common here, sorry) is to hang gear in the hammock or to keep the bug netting off of your face. These aren't very common, though, as an SRL fulfills this function in addition to its primary one at very little additional weight or bulk over a non-SRL.



    The number of pieces of gear is definitely an issue. However, it really isn't all of that much more than tenting. With an hammock, you need four things (possibly five, if it's bug seasons): an hammock (I'm including suspension in the hammock here, the same as I would poles with a tent), a tarp to keep the rain off, top insulation (most frequently a top quilt, but this may be a sleeping bag or even a blanket), and under insulation (in your case, an underquilt). You may need a bug net, depending on the season. With a tent, you need a tent (I'm including poles here, same as the hammock suspension), a rainfly (fills the same need as a tarp), top insulation (usually a sleeping bag, though more and more ground dwellers are going over to a quilt system), and under insulation (though most folks don't realize this the first time out, that pad on the ground actually keeps you warm). If it's bug season, you need the net inner to your tent. So...about the same number of pieces of gear.

    The complexity of the information about that gear is a little different, and it's very easy to get bogged down in information overload here. Bottom line, though, you're just trying to fill the same needs: to stay warm, sheltered from precipitation, and away from creepy crawlies.

    Now, if it's the complexity of set up that's getting to you, lets move on down to fiddle factor...



    Fiddle factor can be (and often is) the primary drawback of an hammock system. However, there's good news! It really can be reduced. If what you're looking for is a quick-up, quick-down, no (or little) fiddle system, there are several different ways to go about it.

    First of all, let's look at your tarp. Yep, your tarp. The easiest way that I've seen to set one up is using a continuous ridgeline like what dejoha shows off on this page. It can be done with some non-stretch line and either specialized hardware from Dutch or two mini carabiners. Once you've got that set-up down, all it is is planting stakes and tying off.

    I really like snakeskins for ease of set-up and break-down with the tarp, as they reduce the effects of the wind catching the tarp like a sail.

    Next, let's look at your suspension. Yes, everyone loves Whoopie Slings. I use 'em. But they're not the easiest suspension system out there for everyone. With a pair of cinch buckles and some climbing-rated carabiners (you definitely want life-rated ones here; don't skimp unless you like sudden drops at 3 AM) or Dutch clips, you have near-infinite adjustability with two clips around the trees.

    Next, let's look at your hammock's carry system and your insulation. More than likely, you're carrying two or three stuff sacks that have your various insulation, sleeping clothing, and hammock in them. I've found it easiest to use either an oversized blackbishop bag (that is, a stuff sack with a grommet in the bottom so that the hammock suspension can exit from the drawcord hole and the opposite side from that) or a Lazy Slug Tube. The reason for that is that I can carry my hammock, pre-set with its underquilt and with the top quilt and any clothing in the hammock, all ready to go as soon as I hang one suspension and run the other over to the second tree. Breaking down is just as easy, except in reverse.

    Your under insulation should be easy to use, but that requires you to get it dialed in the first time. Once you've done that, you can more-or-less set it and forget it (especially if you mark on the quilt's suspension where the adjustment points were that worked for you). Definitely, definitely, definitely get someone to help you adjust your underquilt so that it hugs the hammock properly when you're in it. The second person checking for gaps and helping you adjust the tension will be an huge advantage; if you can get someone who is experienced with this, so much the better. Note that with a partial-length underquilt, you'll probably want something underneath your calves and heels (a square of CCF is a common thing here, as it can double as the virtual frame in a frameless pack). If you decide upon a full-length quilt, the need for that disappears.

    Your top insulation shouldn't be any harder to use than in a tent, with the exception of crawling into a mummy bag. However, you can still use a mummy bag like a quilt; just zip it up to about knee height, stick your legs in, and drape the rest over your body.


    As you can probably tell, the major "fix" for fiddle factor (wow, alliteration much?) is to do most of the work at home. Once you've got everything set, it's just a matter of hanging stuff up and setting stakes.

    Hope it helps!
    "Just prepare what you can and enjoy the rest."
    --Floridahanger

  3. #43
    Senior Member MAD777's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    White Mountains, New Hampshire
    Hammock
    DIY, WBBB & Switchback
    Tarp
    HG cuben,OES Spinn
    Insulation
    DIY 3/4 UQ/TQ, UGQ
    Suspension
    Dynaglide / Dutch
    Posts
    10,950
    Images
    39
    Get a hammock that has a built-in, zippered bugnet. Leave the top quilt, pillow, and ridgeline bag inside when you pack.

    Then, Option 1: Throw the underquilt inside also when you pack, and re-attach it when you set up. OR,
    Option 2: Leave the underquilt on the bottom of the hammock and pack everything in a Lazy Slug Tube.

    By the way, I'm glad you started this thread. I'm sure there are many if us (including me) that could use some simplification.
    Mike
    "Life is a Project!"

  4. #44
    Senior Member Lorax's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Hammock
    WBBB (1.7,1.1) Nx-200 and ENO DN
    Tarp
    Superfly and MJ
    Insulation
    Pad and HG UQ
    Suspension
    Straps with mods
    Posts
    210
    Don't feel bad. They are not a "cure all" and not for everybody despite the consensus here.

    Do what suits you best.

  5. #45
    Member Deerfight's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Spring Creek, Nv
    Tarp
    Noah's 12
    Insulation
    Greylock 4
    Suspension
    Whoopie
    Posts
    51
    Mother of god... Most helpful piece of info I have ever read. Thank you so much for putting the time and effort into this. I've always been confused on ridge lines as well as bug nets, and this really helped explain everything. Again, thank you so much!!! And I'm glad by starting this it's helping
    "And here we see a wily bovine in it's natural habitat, always vigilant..." My Father

    ಠ_ಠ-When I see a good hang

  6. #46
    New Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Hammock
    WBBB
    Tarp
    Superfly
    Insulation
    DIY Quilts
    Posts
    12
    I am new to hammocks, but I agree with goodie..... Learning is half the fun. Between watching Shug's videos YouTube and making my own top and bottom quilts from all the great info available I look forward to gain experience.

    I plan to use my WBBB and Superfly on a two week hike on the AT later this spring (Fontana to Erwin, Tn).

  7. #47
    Senior Member BillyBob58's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Tupelo, MS
    Posts
    11,108
    Images
    489
    Quote Originally Posted by FLRider View Post
    Let's take these in reverse order, as I think that will make the most sense...

    Bug protection with an hammock is no harder than with a tent. There are a multitude of different ways to keep the skeeters out, but the majority of 'em involve a net of one sort or another. There are two major types of bug nets: permanently installed (such as on the Hennessy, Warbonnet, Clark, and Dream Hammock lines), usually using a zipper closure; and detachable (such as the ENO net or the BIAS Buginator). The permanently installed nets are chosen when you choose your hammock; I'm going to assume that you chose one that doesn't have a net installed, since you're asking about them.

    Detachable bug nets come in three major categories (though there are numerous ones that these don't cover, they aren't quite as common): ones that are a tube sock (such as the Dream Hammock tube net or Sgt. Rock's homemade one) that slides over the hammock and cinches down at one end; ones that use a shock cord closure of some sort (like Fronkey's bottom-entry net or the Top Entry Detachable [TED] net); and ones that use a zipper (such as the ENO net or Warbonnet's Traveler net).

    Of the three, there are plusses and minuses to each. The tube nets are super-lightweight but do require you to be able to reach up to your hammock's whipping end to tighten them down. The shock cord nets are slightly heavier but are stupid easy to use, though they do have a bit of a learning curve. The zipper nets are about the same weight as the shock cord nets but have a tendency to fail at the zipper if treated roughly.

    Any of those three will do you. What you need to ask yourself is what's important in a net: weight, ease-of-use, or familiarity. If it's weight, then the tube net is your best bet. If it's ease-of-use once you're familiar with it, then the shock cord net is probably your best bet. If it's familiarity of the closure system, then a zippered net is probably best.



    I'm not sure just what about ridgelines is troubling you? Is it the idea of using one? (And which kind?) Is it the way the word is thrown around here for multiple items?

    The use of a Continuous Ridge Line (often abbreviated to CRL) is fairly easy. What it does is allow you to adjust your tarp to center it over your hammock without having to tie and retie knots on both ends every time you adjust. Tie one end, tie the other, and adjust by sliding the tarp on the ridgeline.

    The use of a Structural Ridge Line (often abbreviated to SRL) is also fairly easy. It takes up the strain of your suspension pulling the hammock body beyond its ideal sag limit (the point at which lying in the hammock becomes difficult due to the hammock being pulled too far horizontally). It's literally a set-and-forget device. Once you've got it dialed in (and most commercial hammocks will have this done for you; otherwise, start with a non-stretch cordage at just longer than ~83% of the hammock body length and tie it off to both suspensions where they meet the whipping ends, then play with the length until it feels right), you don't have to do a thing to use it. You just need to set your hammock up. That's it.

    The use of a non-structural ridgeline (no abbreviation common here, sorry) is to hang gear in the hammock or to keep the bug netting off of your face. These aren't very common, though, as an SRL fulfills this function in addition to its primary one at very little additional weight or bulk over a non-SRL.



    The number of pieces of gear is definitely an issue. However, it really isn't all of that much more than tenting. With an hammock, you need four things (possibly five, if it's bug seasons): an hammock (I'm including suspension in the hammock here, the same as I would poles with a tent), a tarp to keep the rain off, top insulation (most frequently a top quilt, but this may be a sleeping bag or even a blanket), and under insulation (in your case, an underquilt). You may need a bug net, depending on the season. With a tent, you need a tent (I'm including poles here, same as the hammock suspension), a rainfly (fills the same need as a tarp), top insulation (usually a sleeping bag, though more and more ground dwellers are going over to a quilt system), and under insulation (though most folks don't realize this the first time out, that pad on the ground actually keeps you warm). If it's bug season, you need the net inner to your tent. So...about the same number of pieces of gear.

    The complexity of the information about that gear is a little different, and it's very easy to get bogged down in information overload here. Bottom line, though, you're just trying to fill the same needs: to stay warm, sheltered from precipitation, and away from creepy crawlies.

    Now, if it's the complexity of set up that's getting to you, lets move on down to fiddle factor...



    Fiddle factor can be (and often is) the primary drawback of an hammock system. However, there's good news! It really can be reduced. If what you're looking for is a quick-up, quick-down, no (or little) fiddle system, there are several different ways to go about it.

    First of all, let's look at your tarp. Yep, your tarp. The easiest way that I've seen to set one up is using a continuous ridgeline like what dejoha shows off on this page. It can be done with some non-stretch line and either specialized hardware from Dutch or two mini carabiners. Once you've got that set-up down, all it is is planting stakes and tying off.

    I really like snakeskins for ease of set-up and break-down with the tarp, as they reduce the effects of the wind catching the tarp like a sail.

    Next, let's look at your suspension. Yes, everyone loves Whoopie Slings. I use 'em. But they're not the easiest suspension system out there for everyone. With a pair of cinch buckles and some climbing-rated carabiners (you definitely want life-rated ones here; don't skimp unless you like sudden drops at 3 AM) or Dutch clips, you have near-infinite adjustability with two clips around the trees.

    Next, let's look at your hammock's carry system and your insulation. More than likely, you're carrying two or three stuff sacks that have your various insulation, sleeping clothing, and hammock in them. I've found it easiest to use either an oversized blackbishop bag (that is, a stuff sack with a grommet in the bottom so that the hammock suspension can exit from the drawcord hole and the opposite side from that) or a Lazy Slug Tube. The reason for that is that I can carry my hammock, pre-set with its underquilt and with the top quilt and any clothing in the hammock, all ready to go as soon as I hang one suspension and run the other over to the second tree. Breaking down is just as easy, except in reverse.

    Your under insulation should be easy to use, but that requires you to get it dialed in the first time. Once you've done that, you can more-or-less set it and forget it (especially if you mark on the quilt's suspension where the adjustment points were that worked for you). Definitely, definitely, definitely get someone to help you adjust your underquilt so that it hugs the hammock properly when you're in it. The second person checking for gaps and helping you adjust the tension will be an huge advantage; if you can get someone who is experienced with this, so much the better. Note that with a partial-length underquilt, you'll probably want something underneath your calves and heels (a square of CCF is a common thing here, as it can double as the virtual frame in a frameless pack). If you decide upon a full-length quilt, the need for that disappears.

    Your top insulation shouldn't be any harder to use than in a tent, with the exception of crawling into a mummy bag. However, you can still use a mummy bag like a quilt; just zip it up to about knee height, stick your legs in, and drape the rest over your body.


    As you can probably tell, the major "fix" for fiddle factor (wow, alliteration much?) is to do most of the work at home. Once you've got everything set, it's just a matter of hanging stuff up and setting stakes.

    Hope it helps!


    Quote Originally Posted by MAD777 View Post
    Get a hammock that has a built-in, zippered bugnet. Leave the top quilt, pillow, and ridgeline bag inside when you pack.

    Then, Option 1: Throw the underquilt inside also when you pack, and re-attach it when you set up. OR,
    Option 2: Leave the underquilt on the bottom of the hammock and pack everything in a Lazy Slug Tube.

    By the way, I'm glad you started this thread. I'm sure there are many if us (including me) that could use some simplification.
    Quote Originally Posted by Deerfight View Post
    Mother of god... Most helpful piece of info I have ever read. Thank you so much for putting the time and effort into this. I've always been confused on ridge lines as well as bug nets, and this really helped explain everything. Again, thank you so much!!! And I'm glad by starting this it's helping
    Here is a picture of one Hennessy Hammock Super Shelter(which is all of the under insulation) including the HH pad, plus kidney/torso pad, a space blanket, overcover,undercover all attached to one Explorer UL hammock and one Golight Ultra20 TQ inside the netted zipped up hammock.


    Or sometimes I stuff all of that as a single unit down inside my pack instead of using the separate stuff sack pictured. The only thing not in there is my tarp, so that it can be pitched 1st if it is raining when I get to my camp. Then instead of trying to pitch a tent in the rain, I hang the tarp 1st. Then while under the tarp, I open this sack or my pack, take the hammock suspension rope on one end and attach it to a tree. Then I walk the sack or pack towards the other tree(still under the tarp and out of the pouring rain) holding on to the hammock(to keep it off the wet ground) as it slides out and grabbing the the rope on the other end, attaching it to the other tree. Then I do the final adjustment on cenering and ridge line tension and hammock height, takes another minute or two. When I am done, all is ready for sleep. I just unzip ( or use the bottom entry depending on hammock) and get in. Top insulation is already inside.

    I have done a similar technique using a Speer Pea Pod on a net free hammock. http://www.tttrailgear.com/speer-peapod/
    I just close the Pea Pod around the hammock and TQ, and stuff the entire thing into my pack or a large stuff sack. Then I use the same technique as above when I get to camp, IOW, once I get the hammock hung to the trees, every thing else is pretty much ready for bed, all set up.

    All of this has come to seem at least as quick and simple as setting up a tent, and easier/dryer if it is pouring rain. I will admit that it all took a little back yard or day hike practice to become comfortable with it all. But then, I usually have to practice a couple of times with a new tent also before all going smooth on the trail.
    Last edited by BillyBob58; 03-08-2014 at 12:44.

  8. #48
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Alberta
    Hammock
    Chameleon
    Tarp
    Dutch Asym Xenon
    Suspension
    Whoopies/UHMWPE
    Posts
    914
    I went through the same phase. I am so glad that I didn't give up.

    Might I recommend if you are considering a return to ground that you go the bivy/tarp route. This way when you come back to your hammock (by order of your chiropractor) will have a great tarp knowledge. I can't for the life of me see how you can set up a tent in the rain without getting gear wet.
    Please enter your signature here.

  9. #49
    Member Tonopah's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Glendale, AZ
    Hammock
    Amok Draumr
    Tarp
    OEM
    Insulation
    AHE White Cloud
    Suspension
    OEM
    Posts
    95
    One thing I really like about a hammock is no longer having to crawl around on the ground (I’m 66). But, I have continuing problems with shoulder squeeze in every hammock I have tried except the Ridgerunner with a pad.

    I’m pretty sure that the shoulder squeeze in, for instance, a Blackbird, is mostly due to my poor set up. My ridge line always ends up guitar string tight and I need to work on that. I don’t have suitable trees in my area and that has complicated set up. I can’t get the straps high enough to provide enough sag and still be off the ground. Hence, too tight a set up.

    I want to like using a hammock so, I just installed two posts on my property that are set in concrete, stick up 8 feet high, and are 15 feet apart. I will use this to experiment with set ups and am looking forward to getting a proper sag in my Blackbird with a ridge line that can be twisted to 45 degrees or so when I’m in the hammock. Set up right, I am hoping shoulder squeeze becomes manageable.

    Not giving up yet!!

  10. #50
    Senior Member BillyBob58's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Tupelo, MS
    Posts
    11,108
    Images
    489
    Quote Originally Posted by Tonopah View Post
    One thing I really like about a hammock is no longer having to crawl around on the ground (I’m 66). But, I have continuing problems with shoulder squeeze in every hammock I have tried except the Ridgerunner with a pad.

    I’m pretty sure that the shoulder squeeze in, for instance, a Blackbird, is mostly due to my poor set up. My ridge line always ends up guitar string tight and I need to work on that. I don’t have suitable trees in my area and that has complicated set up. I can’t get the straps high enough to provide enough sag and still be off the ground. Hence, too tight a set up.

    I want to like using a hammock so, I just installed two posts on my property that are set in concrete, stick up 8 feet high, and are 15 feet apart. I will use this to experiment with set ups and am looking forward to getting a proper sag in my Blackbird with a ridge line that can be twisted to 45 degrees or so when I’m in the hammock. Set up right, I am hoping shoulder squeeze becomes manageable.

    Not giving up yet!!
    Amazing, as I am somewhat broad shouldered but I have never had any sort of shoulder squeeze issues in any of my non-bridge hammocks, such as HH Explorer, Speer,WBBB, Claytor No Net. With the exception of if I am using one with no structural RL and just hang it too tight. But that is not the norm that I would hand too tight, so really I just never notice any shoulder squeeze. Now leg discomfort is a different matter, but my shoulders are always fine.

  • + New Posts
  • Page 5 of 8 FirstFirst ... 34567 ... LastLast

    Bookmarks

    Posting Permissions

    • You may not post new threads
    • You may not post replies
    • You may not post attachments
    • You may not edit your posts
    •