Pads and Moisture

[Hootsma]

I just finished reading this thread titled "reflectix and condensation":

https://www.hammockforums.net/forum/...ad.php?t=87557

Wow, that was informative! But, I still have a couple of questions and I didn't want to hijack the OP's thread.

I'm doing my first bivy style hunt in Colorado this September and I'm trying to keep the costs down. I have an old North Face Blue Kazoo 15 degree bag. It's lost some loft, but still useable. I was planning on using either my Ridgerest CCF pad or getting one of the full size reflectix pads offered by Hennessy. But, all this moisture talk has me concerned. My bag has no water resistant properties what so ever, so I need to be careful. Here are my questions:

1) Which will be warmer the Ridgerest CCF or the Reflectix?
2) Which will be more likely to induce moisture puddling?
3) Can I reduce the likelyhood of puddling by placing my bag directly on the pad or would I be better off putting the pad in the sleeve of the hammock.
4) I don't recall ever waking up after sleeping in my bag on the CCF pad on the ground and finding moisture between the 2. Is that just dumb luck?
5) Would I reduce the likelyhood of puddling if I used an air pad like the NeoAir Xlite?

Thanks for the help.

Robert

[oldpappy]

I have used pads quite a bit in moderate temperatures and I like CCF much better than heat reflecting material.
I use an old flannel sheet (cotton) between the pad and sleeping bag to absorb the condensation. You know the saying "cotton kills" - well that's because it absorbs and retains moisture. It is damp in the morning but the sleeping bag is dry.
Some folks use a moisture barrier near the body - you need to study vapor barriers prior to using them, but I can tell you it does work amazingly well.
In your ground days, the ground provided some heat retention thus less condensation. In a hammock you just have cold air flow below the pad. Warm body heat hits the dew point at the pad.

[TZBrown]

Welcome to the forum

I have never noticed water, but your back may feel damp if you don't vent to regulate the temp.
The CCF pad will be the best

[Scotty Von Porkchop]

Spot on advice as always guys. If your worried perhaps a cheap fleece liner ? it could absorb moisture and make up for the loss if loft in your bag too. The downside is that fleece is bulky

[cochinchine]

If you intend to use a vapor barrier, there is a school of thought that believes they function most efficiently, close to your body, but not in direct contact with your skin. If you use a TQ, Hennessy recommends putting a reflective blanket in the hammock with you. When using a double layer or super shelter, they offer a reflective bubble pad that goes below the hammock, next to the body. These methods work best with a TQ and efficiency starts to taper off around 40*.

I've had a lot of luck below freezing using a trauma blanket inside my sleeping bag (I still wrestle myself into one when it's real cold). It acts like a heavy duty thermal barrier and heat reflector. I've used a combination of venting and a silk liner or silk thermals to control moisture build-up. The liner may be slightly damp in the morning, but my sleeping bag is not. Silk is only slightly hydrophilic, so it absorbs the moisture and spreads or wicks quickly. It also dries very quickly, so I never have to pack anything moist, as my liner or thermals are usually dry by the time breakfast has been started. Wool is another good fiber, but I just can't sleep in it.

In my experience though, condensation always occurs right at the vapor barrier, regardless of where you put it, so if you plan to use one, account for the moisture build-up with something to absorb it and don't have it below a layer you want to keep dry. For example, never put it below your UQ as your quilt will be soaked from condensing air trapped by the vapor barrier.

Because of the moisture issues, I've always preferred having the barrier in the hammock or sleeping bag with me. I can more quickly vent or adjust the layering.

[Boston]

2) Which will be more likely to induce moisture puddling?

4) I don't recall ever waking up after sleeping in my bag on the CCF pad on the ground and finding moisture between the 2. Is that just dumb luck?

Robert

I'll try to answer these questions:

2) It's not really puddling, more like dampness. Both don't breath through the material so both would PROBABLY be about the same.

4) There can be a larger temperature differential between the pad surface and the air than the pad surface and the ground. Potentially you don't hit depoint when it's on the ground. Also, in a hammock the pad it fully pressed against your body - vs having gaps based on the curve of your spine, etc.. when on the ground. Those gaps mean less contact for moisture transfer, and more venting.

[dakotaross]

1) Which will be warmer the Ridgerest CCF or the Reflectix?
2) Which will be more likely to induce moisture puddling?
3) Can I reduce the likelyhood of puddling by placing my bag directly on the pad or would I be better off putting the pad in the sleeve of the hammock.
4) I don't recall ever waking up after sleeping in my bag on the CCF pad on the ground and finding moisture between the 2. Is that just dumb luck?
5) Would I reduce the likelyhood of puddling if I used an air pad like the NeoAir Xlite?

Thanks for the help.

Robert

1) CCF
2) reflectix
3) does not matter
4) your experience is the norm
5) as opposed to CCF, no

[ScottyDale]

Spot on advice as always guys. If your worried perhaps a cheap fleece liner ? it could absorb moisture and make up for the loss if loft in your bag too. The downside is that fleece is bulky

+1 on the fleece liner. I layer 24" Reflectix, then CCF pad inside a $10 thin fleece sleeping bag liner from Army/Navy. Lay on top of that, use my inexpensive WM Cocoon 250 as a TQ. Toasty to 30 degrees or so. Sounds like a great trip in September... Aim Small/ Miss Small!

[nothermark]

+2 on covering the pad with synthetic fleece! Think about a segmented pad extender made with fleece on the body side and a nylon on the backside. Cut the bulk and give your shoulders a break. ;-)

[SSGHawk]

Themarest Ridgerest has a reflective and non reflective side. I flip it over as appropriate each night.

I use a Stephenson's warm lite hooded jacket (about $80). It cuts the winds, adds maybe 5-10 degree temperature protection and also informs me when I am getting too warm before I get wet. It give me a feeling of dampness with its very comfortable non sticky soft lining. I feel like I am very wet but unzip it, I am only very slightly damp, and about 10 seconds later I am dry. It took a while to work out the VB thing but now I where that VB jacket every night if is going to me around 40 F or lower. Stephenson's warm lite has a lengthy amount of literature plus a catalog that explains it. I also have a stephensons Warm light sleeping system that also is very cool

Regards,
Paul French
214 649 8569