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  1. #51
    Frawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by acercanto View Post
    I LOVE it Caboyer! Great work! I'll definitely do this with my 7/64" when it gets here and I make my hammock and tarp and... (you may notice I'm DIYing everything )

    Acer
    Cool! Be sure and post what you come up with. I'm DIYing everything too.

    Chuck

  2. #52
    Senior Member hangnout's Avatar
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    caboyer, thanks for testing the 7/64. I tried it on my hammock and it works great. The "buried" part on mine is about 8" long under tension. I found something in my wifes craft stuff that looked like a big plastic needle with eye on end. It was about 4" under the eye and worked perfect to splice this. I hope she doesn't miss it.

    I want to test some more but it had zero slippage the first time I used it. This setup with amsteel 7/64 using a toggle off the huggers has to be the lightest quick adjust system going now.
    Last edited by hangnout; 06-22-2009 at 21:13.

  3. #53
    Frawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hangnout View Post
    ... I found something in my wifes craft stuff that looked like a big plastic needle with eye on end. It was about 4" under the eye and worked perfect to splice this. I hope she doesn't miss it.
    How did you use the needle? Did you taper the line and thread it through the eye? A pic would be great.

    ...and thanks for your testing, too. It's good to see independent confirmation.

    Chuck

  4. #54
    Senior Member hangnout's Avatar
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    How did you use the needle? Did you taper the line and thread it through the eye? A pic would be great.
    This link shows the type of needle I used. http://www.dickblick.com/products/needles/#photos (largest one on right) Probably available at most places that carry knitting and crochet supplies.

    I used some pliers to mash the eye flatter. I took scissors and tapered the line before inserting in the eye. I started the needle thru the line going in the direction towards the hammock. Since the needle is plastic, the eye clamped down on the line as it started thru the line. I pushed the line over the needle towards the loop more than I pulled.

    My wife took my camera on a trip so I will have to wait on pics

    I slept out last night and had zero slippage and it did rain so I now know the water will not cause any problems.

    I have tried all the setups on this forum and this is the one I have been looking for when using bare 7/64 amsteel. amsteel 7/64 Whoopie sling and toggle on hugger will be the lightest setup going.
    Last edited by hangnout; 06-23-2009 at 16:22. Reason: spelling

  5. #55
    Senior Member PuckerFactor's Avatar
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    *highfive* awesome report! Just put my order in for Amsteel from Redden Marine (yay $.16/ft.), so should be here soon. Got my cloth too, so just need to find some time to start sewing.

    Acer

  6. #56
    Senior Member TeeDee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by caboyer View Post
    Success!!! (Thanks for the suggestions, Acer & SA!)

    It ain't the purtiest piece of work, but it does work. Finally salvaged another 7/64 Amsteel blue sling to fabricate a whoopie sling for the suspension. Here's the results (overview, tree end, working parts, buried section*):



    SA, the buried section* was about 3.5 fids long.

    I was able to adjust the setup multiple times, with no slippage at all. I need to test it more over time but this looks very promising.

    Thanks again for the ideas, guys!

    Chuck

    *update: found out the buried section is called a "brummel"
    Caboyer - Thanks for your work and posting on this. In looking at what you have done and what I did, I found my mistake - I had the full suspension force on the buried splice. What you have done is to put only 1/2 of the suspension force on the buried splice.

    I went back and looked again at what I did. I had only about 4" to 5" of a buried splice with the full suspension force and it slipped. I increased the buried splice to 24" and it held. Also, with the way I did it, the force on the constrictor is from one end of the constrictor only and so only the first few inches of the constrictor are effective. With the Whoopie sling method you used, the force on the constrictor is on both ends making the full length of the constrictor effective.

    I was considering trying to reduce the length of the buried splice and then I saw what you have done with the "adjustable eye". Much better way to do it.

    I took apart what I did and made an adjustable eye like you did using my 3 mm AS-78 and made the buried splice 10" long and it held with no slippage and no need for a back-up half-hitch. I did a little experimenting and found that I could reduce the buried length to between 4" to 5" and it would hold, no slippage and no back-up half-hitch necessary.

    So I have modified my Single Line Suspension system to follow your lead and use an adjustable eye on both ends of the rope. I have decided to use a 10" buried length on the splice with my 3 mm rope, since this yields a 50% safety factor.

    Having the adjustable eye on both ends of the rope makes my SLS even easier and quicker, no bowlines knots necessary. Simply adjust the eye on one end by sliding the splice and hang over the tree hugger Marlin Spike knot. Open the eye on the other end, hang on the second tree hugger Marlin Spike knot and adjust eye by sliding the splice to obtain the desired line slack. Simple.

    I like the spliced adjustable eyes in single braid rope, simple to use and no back-up half hitches needed, no hardware - simply the rope itself and no knots. All of the knot work is done once in splicing the rope.
    Those who sacrifice freedom for safety, have neither.

    Do not dig your grave with your teeth. (Unknown)

  7. #57
    Frawg's Avatar
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    Hey, TeeDee --

    Thanks a lot for the kind words, but especially for the update on your system. Your article is what got me started on this line of experimenting, so we've got the makings of an infinite loop here.

    It dawned on me today that there has to be tension on both ends of the outer, constricting, section -- at least for this slippery line. ZA206's UCR experience suggests the other approach can certainly work if the line's coefficient of friction is high enough. I really wish that approach had worked for me, because it would have required less line overall.

    Side note - I wonder how friction hitches would hold with an underlayment of thin rubber, e.g., a piece of inner tube from a bike tire.

    Cool stuff; the beat goes on...

    Chuck

  8. #58
    Senior Member nacra533's Avatar
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    *update: found out the buried section is called a "brummel"[/QUOTE]


    The "brummell" is a type of splice that uses a bury. The buried section is called the "bury". The strength of all of these "bury" type splices is in the buried portion. Other things like whipping, sewing, weaving (brummel), or locked brummell are only to improve the low load characteristics of the splice.

    Brummell and locked brummell are two different types of splices. Many people argue over terminology, they also argue over the strength. Check out forester sites or rigger sites, plenty of debate. These are the descriptions I use, but others argue.

    Locked brummell - strength is in the bury, not in the locked part. This splice is NOT as strong as a plain buried splice. It looks like it is stronger but it is not.
    http://www.neropes.com/SPL_12Strand_...ceBrummel.aspx

    An easier method if you have both ends available is to put the working part through the standing part, then the standing part through the working part, bury the working part, like in the Samson directions for a Whoopie Sling.

    Brummell -Strength is still in the bury
    This is the one most of you are familiar with. Weave the working end through the standing part 2 or 3 times then bury the working end. Samson and others have good directions on this type. Usually just called a 12 strand eye splice.

    A properly done 12 strand Class II (spectra/dyneema) eye splice retains 97% or better of the line rating, provided proper taper, bury length (72 diameters)etc. Brummells may fail at high load.

    Reality is: 1/8 spectra is good for 2000#, 7/64" a little less, you can/should use a locked brummell and be fine. I use locked brummells almost exclusively on sailboat rigging because I need the low load performance more than the true rating of the line. Unless you are hanging at VERY little sag, you'll never get close to the breaking limit on the line.

    You all and a little trig taught me: A 30 degree angle doubles the Tension on the line. In other words, if you weigh 200#, there is 200# in each line because there are 2 lines. Steeper angles mean less tension, more horizontal mean a lot more tension. Tension=1/2 Weight/sin(hanging angle off horizontal)

  9. #59
    Frawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hangnout View Post
    This link shows the type of needle I used. http://www.dickblick.com/products/needles/#photos (largest one on right) Probably available at most places that carry knitting and crochet supplies.

    I used some pliers to ...
    Thanks a bunch for the link and the "how to". That description helps a lot, even without a picture.

    I got itchy feet and went to Joanne's looking for stuff that might be usable; found a Dritz #783 6 inch Ball Point Bodkin. that just fits inside the 7/64 line.

    I slept out last night and had zero slippage and it did rain so I now know the water will not cause any problems.
    Thanks for that report. I'm feeling more confident about this.

    I have tried all the setups on this forum and this is the one I have been looking for when using bare 7/64 amsteel. amsteel 7/64 Whoopie sling and toggle on hugger will be the lightest setup going.
    Cool... this was one of those things that somehow felt 'right'. I think something like this really highlights the value of this group, with its cross-pollinating mix of ideas.

    This is too much fun to be legal!

    Chuck

  10. #60
    Frawg's Avatar
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    Nacra, I obviously misunderstood something I'd heard in passing. But it triggered your tutorial, which is great!

    Many thanks, indeed. I'm saving it for future reference.

    Edit:
    the above was too cursory a reply re what you wrote, which is very helpful stuff. You obviously have a lot of relevant experience with this line and I, for one, would appreciate any other insights you have to share. E.g., I'm curious about the wear characteristics. I've noticed my line getting a little fuzzy; how long will it maintain its strength, and are there any telltale danger signals to look for? Thanks again for chiming in!

    Cheers,

    Chuck
    Last edited by Frawg; 06-24-2009 at 09:52.

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