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  1. #141
    in it for the naps oldgringo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frawg View Post
    Pardon me for not replying sooner; I was hoping one of the rope experts would have chimed in.

    IMHO, the answer is 'yes and no'. On the yes side, just thinking about the physics of what happens when you bend a rope, I believe putting any rope through a tight bend will derate the rope. In fact, I suspect that's why knots weaken a rope. On the 'no' side, the 7/64 and larger HMPE lines we're using are so strong that even with the derating we aren't pushing the limit in most hammock suspension applications.

    If I've got this wrong, I'm ready to be reeducated correctly.
    I'm no expert, but I think there's more to this...pressure, friction, heat, to name three.
    Dave

    http://www.uark.edu/misc/xtimber/rna/pattonsbluff.html

    It has always been my private conviction that any man who pits his intelligence against a fish and loses has it coming.
    John Steinbeck

  2. #142
    Frawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldgringo View Post
    I'm no expert, but I think there's more to this...pressure, friction, heat, to name three.
    From stretching, squeezing and rubbing? IMHO these would be secondary effects, the way we're using these ropes. I don't think we think generate enough dynamic loading to make them significant compared to the tension, but that's just speculation. 'nuff said from this dummy.
    - Frawg

    {generic tagline}

  3. #143
    in it for the naps oldgringo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frawg View Post
    From stretching, squeezing and rubbing? IMHO these would be secondary effects, the way we're using these ropes. I don't think we think generate enough dynamic loading to make them significant compared to the tension, but that's just speculation. 'nuff said from this dummy.
    Some have reported melting/glazing to Amsteel (or maybe that was straps? I disremember)...in any case, it left the impression with me that localized heating occurs where load (pressure) and movement (friction) come together in synthetics.

    Dummy? Puh-leeeze.
    Dave

    http://www.uark.edu/misc/xtimber/rna/pattonsbluff.html

    It has always been my private conviction that any man who pits his intelligence against a fish and loses has it coming.
    John Steinbeck

  4. #144
    Senior Member Just Jeff's Avatar
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    If you pull a synthetic line across another synthetic line (or the webbing loop), the heat can actually burn thru the thinner one...I've cut rope this way before. This is a problem when pulling your hammock tight thru a tree hugger, especially if you have gear in it to weight it down. If it's not loaded and moving it isn't a big deal in my experience.
    “Republics are created by the virtue, public spirit, and intelligence of the citizens. They fall when the wise are banished from the public councils because they dare to be honest, and the profligate are rewarded because they flatter the people, in order to betray them.” ~Judge Joseph Story

    - My site: http://www.tothewoods.net/
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    IMPOSSIBLE JUST TAKES LONGER

  5. #145
    Frawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldgringo View Post
    Some have reported melting/glazing to Amsteel (or maybe that was straps? I disremember)...in any case, it left the impression with me that localized heating occurs where load (pressure) and movement (friction) come together in synthetics.

    Dummy? Puh-leeeze.
    Well, maybe not a dummy but I have more than my share of ignorance. I'll bow to the voice of experience on this stuff.

    Speaking of which, I had only one experience with friction heating of AmSteel (my only point of reference) and that was in my early experiments -- when I made a constrictor segment too short on a UCR, it slipped under load and both the constrictor and the internal line got pretty hot. I didn't see any damage to the line, but it did catch my attention.

    Edit: just remembered that I did see some friction melting of the polyester Walmart webbing I used with my first Risk type hammock a few years back.
    Last edited by Frawg; 03-28-2010 at 12:45. Reason: what the heck's a 'contrictor'??
    - Frawg

    {generic tagline}

  6. #146
    in it for the naps oldgringo's Avatar
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    I think that some movement is unavoidable when the hammock is in use (loaded), even in knots.

    I don't think any of this dangerously compromises our suspensions, just making the point that I think radius of bend isn't the sole factor in the derating of cordage
    Dave

    http://www.uark.edu/misc/xtimber/rna/pattonsbluff.html

    It has always been my private conviction that any man who pits his intelligence against a fish and loses has it coming.
    John Steinbeck

  7. #147
    Frawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldgringo View Post
    I think that some movement is unavoidable when the hammock is in use (loaded), even in knots.

    I don't think any of this dangerously compromises our suspensions, just making the point that I think radius of bend isn't the sole factor in the derating of cordage
    Point taken.
    - Frawg

    {generic tagline}

  8. #148
    Senior Member Rug's Avatar
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    There are two thoughts that are both wrong;
    1) If it is old it must be good.
    2) If it is new it must be better.

    Dutch, your design is timeless. Its simplicity is its perfection. Nacrabiners have their place in the world (and in my gear-bag). But Dutchclips will always have a place on my tree-huggers.

    Hammers and nails are thousands of years old. They did not stop being used because screws & screwdrivers were invented. Use the right tool for the job.
    I ride a recumbent.
    I like to HAM it up on the CW.
    I use Linux.
    I play go.
    Of course I sleep in a hammock!

    Rug.

    Hang On!

  9. #149
    lonetracker's Avatar
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    evolution

    new nacrabiner ideas. made a handle for the whipped cinch wind lock section.i used a nail knot(i think)with 4 loops.after this was tied i connected the leftover ends together as you would a continuous loop.you could also tie the ends together with an overhand knot.this handle is going to make it very easy to open and close this nacrabiner with cold fingers, in dark conditions,arthritus,ect.i call it the whipzip

    DSCN21620001.JPG DSCN21640001.JPG

    when i set up my hammock i have been hanging my suspension first and then attaching my hammock to it using a toggle.i am going to try replaceing my chain link/toggle system with a similar sized nacrabiner.

    DSCN21510001.JPG

  10. #150
    gargoyle's Avatar
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    Looks good LT.
    Ambulo tua ambulo.

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