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  1. #291
    New Member mikewilkinson's Avatar
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    Has anybody tried tying these like this rather than splicing

    Great site, I've been looking on here for ages but never got around to joining.
    But thought this might be useful for those who want to make these in a hurry out in the field. Please excuse any dropped links or images, first post on the forum!!

    Start with a simple loop made with the stopper knot of your choice (for this example I've just stuck an overhand knot in a bight on some cord I had lying around.) Pic 38.

    Then form a loop by crossing/twisting the end of the bight. Pic 39.

    Pull another bight through it. Essential tying a marlin spike hitch at the end of the bight, Pic 40.

    feed cord through hitch, until legs are even and hitch is right at the top of the bight. Pic 41.

    Loosen the loop of the marlin spike hitch by sliding it down one leg. Pic 42.

    Pull stopper through loop (basically this is the Marlin spike for the knot) and tighten hitch around cord. Pic 43.

    Taadaa!!!.

    I'm thinking of ditching all my carabiners in favour of these. So that will be one on the end of each tree hugger and instead of using clove hitches around carabiners on my single line, I'll use trail debris to make marlin spike hitches on the line and use the nacrabiner to hang off of these. Will post pictures if it works and to make it a bit more clear.

    I already use them on the tarp to secure my tarp tie outs to my Penthbury Prussiks on the ridgeline, so I can sling my Tarp however I choose.

    Keep up the good work people!! Once again love the forum.

    Mike
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    "Coz I find strength in pain, and I will change my ways, I'll know my name as its called again"

  2. #292
    Knotty's Avatar
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    Mike - My experience has been that methods like the one you show are field expedient and will work but are hard to undo after they've been heavily loaded. The Amsteel versions with the permanent loop in the end are much easier to use.

    Also be careful with the stopper knot. In slippery rope like Amsteel you should only use the diamond knot (bosun's whistle knot). In the double braid you picture it's probably less critical.

    Glad to have you participating in the forums.
    Knotty
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  3. #293
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    First, I've not read this entire monster thread so I apologize if this has been asked/mentioned. I made my first Nacrabiners last night and they're pretty cool. I was wondering if it'd help to tie another piece of cord/string through the loop that slips so that it's easier to "unshackle" after using. Now I have to pull the stopper knot out of the way and work the loop back open but a little string tied through it might make it easier to untie.

    Could this extra bulk cause it to be less secure?

    --Matt

  4. #294
    New Member mikewilkinson's Avatar
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    Hi Ron,

    Thanks for the input. The braid I'm using here is just for a test version to see if the principle is sound ( I like to see these things for myself), If I like the idea and how they work then I'd probably make them using the eye as in the original post and use a Dyneema based cord (D12 SK78 or 90 over here in the UK).

    I have used the test version this morning and hung in the hammock for about an hour. I didn't have any problems undoing the 'biner', just pulled sideways on the stopper to get a little slack and then slid the marlin down the cord!!

    As I've said before this was a quick example, the overhand knots were just quick and easy for demonstrating the method, I would use something more secure for a proper job. Doubled Sink Stopper, Doubled Stevedore or Diamond knots.

    The great thing about this 'Field' method is that all you need is a good fixed loop. A prussik loop made using double fishermans knots, lanyard bends, Ashleys bend or even a Hunters bend can be used and the knot creating the loop forms the stopper.

    Don't get me wrong a properly formed nacrabiner is still the best option, this is just an alternative to use when you realise you have left you swedish fid at home.

    I've attached the test nacra's vs conventional set up pics from this mornings test, let me know your thoughts. (Could lose the nacra on the Marlin spike and hook the Hammock cord straight over the spike is my first thought.)

    What is evident is that you can see the overhand knot creeping, further highlighting the need for a 'proper' stopper knot.

    Thanks again for replying Ron
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  5. #295
    Senior Member TiredFeet's Avatar
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    mikewilson - another way to form the loop is to use a Solomon Bar on the cord.

    Tie the end using a Diamond knot (someone tested and found that a plain overhand pulls out). You have a loop. Take some guy line cord and tie a Solomon Bar around around the legs of the loop. Tie the Solomon Bar just tight enough that it barely slides on the legs of the loop.

    Slide the Solomon Bar towards the Diamond Knot to open the "biner", hook over Diamond Knot and slide Solomon Bar to tighten.

    Can be made in the field when needed and probably just as secure as a regular spliced nacrabiner. Also easier to open and close than a spliced nacrabiner.

    If you look back through the thread MacEntyre has somepics of a key ring he made this way. Here

  6. #296
    Senior Member TOB9595's Avatar
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    Thank you mikewilson.
    I now understand how to make one.
    I am aware of the need for the proper stopper when using amsteel....

    How does Mike's version differ from the non field made nacro's???
    Tom

  7. #297
    Knotty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TOB9595 View Post
    Thank you mikewilson.
    I now understand how to make one.
    I am aware of the need for the proper stopper when using amsteel....

    How does Mike's version differ from the non field made nacro's???
    Tom
    Actually the "non field" version can be made in the field pretty easily. Basically you fold the hollow braid line in half and pinch it to form a small loop near the fold. You then take one end of the line and pass it thru the other half of the line where you were pinching it. In the field you can whittle a point on a twig and use it to poke the line to open up the braid so you have room to pass the end thru. You now have an adjustable loop. Near the tail ends tie a diamond knot and you're done. (The ones in my pic also has one tail tucked into the other but that's not necessary and difficult to do in the field)
    Knotty
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  8. #298
    lonetracker's Avatar
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    mikewilsonon your last pic.if you made the green rope that attaches to your hammock into a large nacrabiner and fed this thru your hammocks channel,and larks headed it in place you could get rid of the small orange nacra,and would have nothing that could get lost.that is what i do my 'chainlinks' are large nacras.i like hanging my suspension then adding the hammock.
    i have been useing that same slideing knot in the loop you show .to secure my smaller gear nacras

    another way to secure the nacra.wrap your loop around whatever you are attaching to.
    slide the loop between the nacra cords under the knot.
    pull loop over knot and tighten
    no adjustable loop or whipping needed
    seems strong to me,but has not been tested.i sleep of it.
    if this does not make sense and anyone is interested i will make pictures

  9. #299
    Senior Member TOB9595's Avatar
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    Pics please...Not that you didn't make sense....
    Tom

  10. #300
    New Member mikewilkinson's Avatar
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    Hi Tired Feet,

    Yeah, I like the Solomon bar method as well, I never thought to use it using a seperate cord as the bar.

    The Solomon bar is also called the Cobra stitch I think, I make lanyards using it and attach them to all sorts of things (see pic of pocket knife) so that I always have some cord about me in case of emergancies. I once made a belt using it by going over the top of the solomon with another solomon and then back over again (king cobra stitch and super cobra stitch). Made a really good belt and meant that I always had 50' of paracord on me. Shame I left it in a hotel when away on business, Perhaps I should make another.

    I would like to point out (as everyone seems to be picking up on it) The overhand knot used in the example is not the stopper I would use for heavy loading, I only used it here to quickly mock up an example, I would probably use a lanyard knot (I think this your Diamond knot) or a sink stopper.

    The Diamond knot is a different knot over here used by the British navy and other sailing fraternities, it is tied in a 3 strand rope and basically consists of a wall knot tied below a crown knot, looks pretty awesome when doubled. It is quite often used on the end of hand rail ropes, where a decorative but functional stopper is required, other variants on this theme include the mathew walker knot and the manrope knot.

    I've been considering away of tying/splicing my biners so that there is only one cord through the slip loop ( I know the knots will reduce the breaking strength, but when your cord has an average breaking load of 4500lbs or even 2000lbs, I don't see this as an issue) .

    Any Ideas?
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    Last edited by mikewilkinson; 06-09-2010 at 05:07. Reason: forgot image oops!
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