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  1. #11
    Senior Member TeeDee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by caboyer View Post
    I like your system a lot. My motivation for diverging from it was that I wanted a removable ridge line. I like using the hammock as a lounge chair and, at 6' 2", I don't like dodging the ridge line with my head.....
    I hear you on that. I'm not that tall and now even shorter than I used to be (getting older is the pits ), but one reason I had a hard time liking the Hennessy ULBA was the fact that the ridge line is so darn close and low.

    In my Bridges I keep the ridge line as high as possible and it is way out of my way now. When I'm laying down and reach up, the ridge line is about the middle of my hand or a little higher. I like it up there since it also keeps the bug netting and over cover up high and out of the way.
    Those who sacrifice freedom for safety, have neither.

    Do not dig your grave with your teeth. (Unknown)

  2. #12
    Senior Member TeeDee's Avatar
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    disadvantage

    Found one disadvantage to using the Whoopie Sling for a tarp guy line:

    It can be hard to loosen when the guy line is pulled tight.

    This is, of course, true of all friction knots. Try loosening a Prussic under load. If the friction knot wasn't hard to loosen under load, then it wouldn't be any good as a friction knot.

    The Figure 9 retains an advantage in this regard.
    Those who sacrifice freedom for safety, have neither.

    Do not dig your grave with your teeth. (Unknown)

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by BaloO View Post
    another noob question.. is it possible to splice paracord or is the braid to small?
    I don't see how, paracord is a kern type construction, like a climbing rope. It has inner strands with a sheath.

  4. #14
    Frawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TeeDee View Post
    Found one disadvantage to using the Whoopie Sling for a tarp guy line:

    It can be hard to loosen when the guy line is pulled tight.

    This is, of course, true of all friction knots. Try loosening a Prussic under load. If the friction knot wasn't hard to loosen under load, then it wouldn't be any good as a friction knot.

    The Figure 9 retains an advantage in this regard.
    Rigged my tarp in a light rain today with mason line whoopie sling guys and noticed the same thing. More challenging to me was trying to figure out what to push and what to pull. Add old guy eyesight to the mix, and it's been interesting. Think I'll stick with it for a while, though, and see how it plays out over time.

  5. #15
    Senior Member TeeDee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by caboyer View Post
    I like your system a lot. My motivation for diverging from it was that I wanted a removable ridge line. I like using the hammock as a lounge chair and, at 6' 2", I don't like dodging the ridge line with my head.

    I'll make it a point to see how much the length of my ridge liine changes between setups, but I'll probably just make some marks on the line to facilitate replicating certain lengths.

    My only concern is that my toggles could easily get lost, so I need to secure them in some way. (TBD) Might also use some of my pink duct tape on 'em.

    Good show!

    Chuck
    The thought of making the ridge line portion adjustable has been nagging at me all day. I like your idea of using a Whoopie Sling to do that. I think that I may have thought of a means of making the SLS into actually a 3LS, 3 Line System, with the ridge line portion a Whoopie Sling.

    I think that I'll use your idea of making all 3 sections Whoopie Slings. The 2 end sections will have the fixed eyes pulled down tight on the toggles. The middle Whoopie Sling, which is really the ridge line, will then simply capture the toggles with the bury of the toggle fixed eye in the Whoopie Sling eyes.

    By using a permanent marker Sharpie, I can mark the ridge line Whoopie Sling like I do the end Whoopie Slings for the desired ridge line length. Adjusting the ridge line length then becomes a simple matter of adjusting the Whoopie Sling.

    If I interpret your picture correctly, I think this is actually what you do.
    Those who sacrifice freedom for safety, have neither.

    Do not dig your grave with your teeth. (Unknown)

  6. #16
    Frawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TeeDee View Post
    The thought of making the ridge line portion adjustable has been nagging at me all day. ...

    By using a permanent marker Sharpie, I can mark the ridge line Whoopie Sling like I do the end Whoopie Slings for the desired ridge line length. ...

    If I interpret your picture correctly, I think this is actually what you do.
    Yes, that's exactly what I do now. Might be a little clearer in this description, although I don't show the ridge line there. I would also mention the small whoopies I place at each end of the hammock to let me raise / lower either end a little bit. This lets me fine tune where my butt ends up without having to fiddle with the main suspension.

    As you can probably tell, I like symmetry and modularity. Might not be quite as comfy as the asym hammocks but I like not having to worry about left/right/up/down, and it lets me equalize wear & tear on the hammock over time.

    Cheers!

    Chuck
    Last edited by Frawg; 06-26-2009 at 12:32. Reason: didn't want to lose my gold star in spelling...

  7. #17
    Senior Member nacra533's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TeeDee View Post
    Yes, I saw that. All of the references I have read recommend 3.5 fid lengths and they define a fid length as 7 times the circumference which comes out to slightly over 21 times the diameter. That's one reason I decided to use a 10" bury on my SLS even though 5" held fine. On my SLS I'm using 3 mm (approximately 1/8") rope, so 3.5 * 21 * 1/8 == 9.2" approximately.

    For my 1.75 mm Lash-It, the 3.5 fid lengths works out to approximately 1.5". I've found that 1" holds fine, but I'll probably use 1.5".

    Good to know that it works on the braided mason line - it will probably work on any braided guy line.

    3.5 fid lengths is a good number. You could likely go much shorter since you are not supporting weight/life with it. A whoopie sling is used for adjustable overhead lifting slings and by arborists and usually is only adjustable on one side. I think the 72 or maybe 76?? diameters comes from that application. 3.5 fids is what I would use if I were lifting something heavy, but for tarp lines, you could probably cut it down to possibly as low as 1.5 or 2 fid lengths if line length is a concern. I frequently "cheat" fid lengths for compactness if making something for a NON CRITICAL LOAD application.

    I love that you folks are getting knitting needles and making your own fids. I love the look of the checkout lady at w/mart when I buy them. Another couple of "tools" are mig welding wire and round BBQ skewers and flatten the end. If you get really into the little stuff, there is spectra braid fishing line and some tiny splicing needles available for it. There are also some pretty neat spliced applications that an experienced hammocker could find a use for.

    http://www.getbentsportfishing.com/f...e-spectra.html

    Also check out the kite surfing and kite fishing arena, they use some pretty small spectra braid and probably sell some splicing needles there as well. I have never considered going UL, but it could earn you a couple a cool points to be hanging a tarp from fishing line so small you can barely see it.

  8. #18
    Senior Member TeeDee's Avatar
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    Msls

    Modular Suspension Line System.

    Okay - I put together my new 3LS, now called a Modular Suspension Line System or MSLS.

    In making the system today, I realized that I couldn't use a simple Whoopie Sling for the ridge line. In my method for using the system, I need to know the center point of the ridge line. In hanging, I pace off the tree span, divide by 2 and use that distance to set the length of the suspension to one tree. In order not to have to measure that length on the suspension line all the time, I use Sharpie marks on the suspension. If I used a simple Whoopie Sling for the Ridge line, then the center point would change every time I changed the ridge line length - no good.

    So the middle ridge line section is a modified Whoopie Sling. Instead of an adjustable eye on one end and a fixed eye on the other end, I use adjustable eyes on both ends. The center of the sling where the two adjustable eyes meet is also the center of the ridge line. When changing the ridge line length, I change both adjustable eyes an equal amount and the center of the sling remains the center of the ridge line.

    Took my last SLS with the adjustable eyes on both ends, pulled the steel toggles out of the marlin spike hitches and untied the hitches. Then I cut the rope in half and spliced fixed eyes on the newly cut ends with the fixed eyes pulled down tight on the 1" steel toggles. That gave me 2 Whoopie Slings with steel toggles in the fixed eyes.

    Took some new 3 mm rope and made the modified sling. Set the 2 adjustable ends to the same size to give me a 118" ridge line. Hung the loops on the toggles in the fixed eyes and adjusted one end of the new suspension for the desired slack and hung the Bridge Hammock on the toggles.

    Works great.

    So my SLS has now evolved into the MSLS. The MSLS enables me to adjust the slack by simply sliding the buried splices and also readily change the ridge line length by again simply sliding the buried splices.

    The MSLS is even more adaptable since the ridge line can be removed and left off if desired. Removing the ridge line is done by simply unhooking the adjustable eyes from the steel toggles. The hammock can be hung from the steel toggles with or without the ridge line modified Whoopie Sling.
    Last edited by TeeDee; 06-26-2009 at 20:55. Reason: correct title
    Those who sacrifice freedom for safety, have neither.

    Do not dig your grave with your teeth. (Unknown)

  9. #19
    Senior Member nacra533's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by caboyer View Post
    I imagine anything is possible, but I haven't heard of it being done nor can I imagine where I'd want to. Besides, my eyesight and dexterity are nowhere near good enough to pull it off, so I wouldn't even think of trying. Sheet, Zeppelin or Fisherman's bends are what I typically turn to.

    I agree. It might be possible to eye splice it using a parallel core splice, similar to New England Sta-Set X or a Kernmantle splice, but probably a poor application or misapplication for several reasons. It may even be possible to construct something that resembles a whoopie sling but I would not trust it.

    1. Parallel Core splices are VERY hard/tedious to do and not worth the effort unless you must have a spliced eye. In some cases with Sta Set X, you have to use a winch or other mechanical advantage (a Chevy) to do the final bury. In most parallel core lines (I assume some Kernmantle is included & I have zero experience with that), the core carries all of the load and the cover is just a cover. When eye spliced, the cover of Kern is sometimes stitched back to itself a the throat of the eye and trimmed, because it really does not add strength.
    2. Paracord holds knots well.
    3. The cover of paracord is much more loose than a typical parallel core line, which may make it easier to splice, but the end result may be a weak one. Also the reason something that resembles a whoopie might be possible.
    4. Does the cover in 550/paracord share the load with the core??? If the cover shares the load, a PC splice would be the incorrect splice and would weaken the line and not be considered safe for load bearing.

  10. #20
    Senior Member TeeDee's Avatar
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    Talking Evolving MSLS

    My MSLS is still evolving.

    I change the ridge line length very, very seldom and so have decided that I will reserve the adjustable ridge line with the adjustable eyes on each end for special purpose use in experimenting with changing the ridge line length.

    Since the MSLS is so modular, I have made up 3 ridge line lengths of 117", 118" and 119" using spliced fixed eyes on each end, so they are a fixed length.

    Actually I meant to make only one, 119" length, but forgot to compensate for the buried splice and so ended with 3. The first was meant to be 119", but ended up 117" because I didn't compensate and I don't know why the second ended up at 118" .

    I will be using the fixed length ridge lines 99% of the time. Just pick the length I want and use it.

    I plan on making another one for a 120" ridge line. I will probably use that one most of the time unless I find the length interfering with the tarp, in which case I can swap it out for either 119" or 118". Swapping the fixed length ridge lines with the MSLS is very easily and very quickly accomplished. I find that for practical use, I prefer a fixed ridge line length since then I am dealing with a know quantity.

    Since each ridge line rope weighs approximately 0.6 oz, I can easily afford to carry an extra with a different length.
    Those who sacrifice freedom for safety, have neither.

    Do not dig your grave with your teeth. (Unknown)

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