Coming of age GSMNP backpacking trip June 23-27

[mudburn]

My older son turns 13 this year, on June 23. I want to intentionally mark a transition in his life and masculine development. So, the year that he is 13 will begin with a backpacking trip in the Great Smoky Mountains backcountry. There will be other activities and opportunities throughout the year.

Anyway, we've been working on plans for the trip since January. There will be five in our group: me, my son, a brother-in-law, his nearly 13 year old son, and my dad. The route we've selected starts from the Cosby campground. We will hike over Low Gap to the Walnut Bottom campsite the first day. The second day we'll head down Big Creek and then up the Baxter Creek Trail to the Mt. Sterling campsite. The third day will take us down the Long Bunk Trail to the Little Cataloochie Trail ending at the Pretty Hollow campsite. The fourth day we'll hike up Pretty Hollow and down Swallow Creek to return to the Walnut Bottom campsite before hiking back out to the Cosby Campground on the fifth day. Total distance is around 40 miles with the longest day slated to be about 11 miles.

So, that's the plan. As we began our planning, we discovered hammock camping. Being a big proponent of doing things myself rather than paying someone else to do it for me, we embarked on a DIY journey. We each made hammocks. Of course, the younger siblings wanted hammocks, too. So, I acquired material and let them make their own. But, there was so much that I didn't know to begin with, like the need for insulation (not just a sleeping bag) and weather protection. So, I've been working on making gear, figuring things out as I go along. I'm also making some gear for my brother-in-law (my dad decided he'll stay on the ground -- he likes to stay with the tried and true).

One of the latest things I've been working on is bottom insulation. I made an UQ with half of a full-size fleece (nylon) blanket and some ripstop. I tried it out two nights ago using just it and a fleece sleeping bag. It was 60° to begin with, and I was warm enough and fell asleep fine. Three hours later I woke up cold. Not freezing, but cold. It was 50° I knew that I would not be comfortable even if I went back to sleep, so I bailed and went inside the house. Last night, my 3 younger children and I slept out in our hammocks. I used the fleece UQ, having made some adjustments to the suspension to hold it tighter to the underside of the hammock. Again, I awakened around 12:00am feeling the cold (not freezing, though). I added another layer of fleece between the UQ and the hammock and swapped the fleece bag (which I was using as a top quilt) for a 40° synthetic sleeping bag. I was warmer, but not comfortably warm as I would like. It again was around 50°. I was able to sleep after that, waking up a couple of times, but I wasn't toasty warm like I wanted to be. The children were using sleeping bags (2 of them had 0° bags and the older, to-be-13 son was using a ~30° bag). They had no insulation under them. They all got cool in the middle of the night, too.

What does all of this have to do with a backpacking trip in June? It's all about gear testing and figuring out what we need, how to set it up, how to use it, and how well it will work. I've tried to figure out the temperatures to expect in the Smokies in June. One site said it can get down to the mid-50°s at night. If I have a set up that is good down to the lower 60°s, how do I plan for the mid-50°s? I do want to hang, but more important is to be able to sleep well, and that includes being warm enough (and not too warm).

Do any of you have suggestions or ideas regarding the temperatures to expect at that time of the year? What should we be prepared for? There are DIY options other than what I've already tried (many, but I'm not made of money). Any other thoughts about our trip and planned route? We will continue gear testing and figuring out what we can do with what we have or can make (we do have PLs to make UQs from, and I'm also wondering about IX which would weigh a bit less -- that weight really begins to add up).

I know that many of you have spent time in the Smokies. I have visited the park a couple of times and have camped a few times in Pisgah National Forest (on the ground) years ago (once, in the back of a pickup at 8° -- that was a cold night). So, I ask for the sharing of your wisdom, and I thank you in advance, welcoming all comments, suggestions, and advice.

[TallPaul]

Hey Mudburn -
I don't have much advice on the DIY gear for ya.

As to the weather, I plan for it to be unpredictable when I backpack in this area. It could be lovely, or it could be 40's & windy.
At Mt. Sterling, there'll be some protection with trees, but realize you will be camping at elevation, so it will be colder & possibly winder.

On your trail choice, I don't know what your group is capable of physically but going up Baxter is going to be a grind.
4,200 feet in 6 miles.
Here's some alternatives (put in order of my suggested priority):
1) Just go up Swallow to Mt. Sterling & have a shorter mileage day. The youth will enjoy the creek at Walnut, and setting up early at Mt. Sterling will allow them to explore the tower, get water (it's a bit of a hike), have a campfire, etc.
2) From Walnut Bottom, take the Gunter Fork trail to the Mount Sterling Ridge trail. Allows you to avoid doing the Swallow trail 2x
3) If you are set on Big Creek / Baxter, you could do the loop counter-clockwise from Walnut Bottom so you are coming down Baxter. Your knees will be taking on for the team.
4) Do the Big Creek / Baxter trail. Maybe they 13 year olds will have a vision quest going up the hill

Good luck!
Oh and I did a trip there last summer Big Creek to Walnut Bottom to Mt Sterling & down Baxter. Video is in my Youtube channel - the link should be below in my signature.

[mudburn]

Thanks for your input, Paul. I appreciate it. I think we will plan for unpredictability. I'll continue to explore and pursue the most appropriate DIY gear options. I'm curious what you pack for sleeping during trips at that time of year in GSMNP. Right now, my biggest concern is adequate insulation, bottom and top. Being prepared for a possible wide range of conditions is a challenge -- a good one, though.

I've watched the videos of your trip from last summer already. I've searched for all that I could find on YouTube and elsewhere about the trails we're planning on hiking. I realize that Baxter is a rigorous trail, and we will definitely consider other options. I would like the boys to face the challenge of hiking Baxter Creek, whether or not they have a vision quest. Perhaps, we could start the hike from Big Creek Campground so we can begin with Baxter while we're fresh, rather than after a 5 mile hike down Big Creek Trail. Then, we could continue down Long Bunk to Cataloochie the next day, then up Pretty Hollow and Swallow Fork to Walnut Bottoms the next day, and then from there to Otter Creek from Low Gap and along the Appalachian Trail. Since we'll have two vehicles (my bro-in-law is coming from NC and we're in KY), we'll finish at Cosby Campground, coming down Snake Den Ridge the last day. Any thoughts on that route? You're right to point out the difficulty of Baxter Creek as part of a longer day, and I appreciate that.

[TallPaul]

That's a good thought on Big Creek campground & reducing the miles for Baxter but I wouldn't count on that campground - they only have 12 sites, and it seemed to be popular with the locals who come and setup camp early in the week & then enjoy swimming in the creek.

Staying with your original plan, you could leave your itinerary open with plan A to go up Baxter and plan B to go up Swallow, then decide once you make it to Walnut Bottom. That way you can see how they handled the climb up Low Gap, which is about half the climb of Baxter.
If you do go up Baxter, be sure to fill up your water at the spring on the way up - it is about .25 miles from the top. You don't want to cover that ground 2x (and it is still uphill for that remaining .25). Be sure to get enough to cover you for the night & to your next water source.

I understand the challenge part & I'm not trying to talk you out of it.
I've sat here & thought to myself it would be an interesting 'test' to see if my daughter could do it. But I personally lean toward having an "easier" day with climbing up Swallow instead of Baxter. But, hike your own hike as they say. I'm just glad you aren't taking it lightly.

Your days look approximately like this according to the Little Brown book.
Day 1 - 2000'
Day 2 – 4000'
Day 3 – downhill
Day 4 – 2000'
Day 5 - 2700'

I hope some others drop on here & give you some advice on DIY gear.

[mudburn]

Yeah, I've noticed that the BC campground is small, and we wouldn't even try to camp there. We will still meet the day before at Cosby and camp there. Then, we could shuttle around to BC, assuming that there would be parking to leave one vehicle there during the trip, if we decide to start with Baxter. All of us going on the trip will discuss the options. My son and I are already discussing them. The other young man and his dad have been conditioning since Feb. They live in Hickory. We visited them in March and hiked at a couple nearby parks, including to the top of Crowders Mountain (we could see your neck of the woods from up there). As we drove through the Smokies, the immensity of the mountains compared to the small hills we have around here was obvious. I have no doubt that it's going to be an incredible and possibly very challenging (in a variety of ways) trip.

I would like some other gear advice, too. I'm going to pose some specific questions about gear in other areas of HF. I am open and welcome to all forms of advice and suggestions to make the trip as awesome as possible. We're trying to consider everything, but there is great help in additional input, like you've offered. So much is learned through experience. When I first backpacked in the late 80s, I was in Southern California and didn't know what I was doing. We packed very heavy and made some silly choices about what to take with us (based on a "I've got more room in my pack here" mentality). The first trip was up Mt. San Gorgonio, the tallest peak in Southern CA. We also made several trips along Sespe Creek which runs through the CA Condor Sanctuary (no condors there at the time). We learned from each trip and had a great time in the process.

[psyon27]

Can I join you? I come of age at the end of your trip on the 27th. Though I will be turning 30 not 13 lol. My wife and I have been thinking of coming of age things for our kids. The thing I came up with isn't backpacking related but I think it will be enjoyable. When my daughter was born we brewed a cranberry cyser to drink a bottle on every one of her birthdays and then for her sweet 16 we will open the rest to celebrate. For my son doing a backpacking/hiking/camping related event sounds like a great idea! Have fun!

Ken

[Insaniac99]

I don't know how much help this information is going to be because I don't do much DiY, but here goes:

I would suggest a pad. They are cheap, easy and for DiY, you can make a pad extender for shoulders if you wanted, but I wouldn't bother at those temps. When I plan for a range of temperatures I plan low, and figure I can easily vent to cool off (sleeping while too warm is almost never a problem for me, but sleeping while cold often is) So when I went camping this past October in the Pacific North West I had a pad, a 30 degree bag, and extra clothing layers for if it dropped below that.

Not knowing your area or what you sleep in here is my advice:

1: Bring whatever gear you would normally bring for 45-50 degree weather; be it pad, heavier bags, etc they should easily work in a hammock (just not as good as quilts on the comfort scale)
2: If you don't have any gear then find out how low you can go (seems 60 is your limit) and try thicker/more insulative clothes to sleep in; bring themal underwear or sweats or some such. Since you can test it now this is the easiest extension, at the cost of a little pack weight (but to me some sweats feel good after a long day's hike and are worth the weight*)
3: If you don't have clothes that fit that bill or don't want the weight, a pad is the cheapest/easiest way to go colder for minimal weight.

If interested here is my gear list for a trip where estimated temperatures were ~35 degrees, recorded temps were ~30, and wind chill from the lake was MUCH colder. I slept like a baby (but not like a newborn who constantly wakes up ~_^ ). https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...1E&usp=sharing

Here is my pre-trip questions and such if you are interested, I still need to write a trip report sometime, it was a qualified success (I'll go into more detail if you like) but Sleeping in the hammock was easily the best and most successful part. https://www.hammockforums.net/forum/...or-suggestions

*It is all about whether you are hiking to camp or camping to hike. I am more of the former; I go light because my needs are minimal, but I don't go ultra-lite because I like my creature comforts and convenience stuff.

[mudburn]

Thanks. I will spend some time going through your gear list (just opened it -- will read in detail later). I'll also read your pre-trip questions thread. I appreciate all input.

I have been considering the pad option. I haven't tried it yet, but I will tomorrow night. It's supposed to get down to 43°. I'm going to try some new options, including a pad and some radiant barrier insulation (reflectix, as many call it), and my son is going to try his 30° bag with the fleece UQ -- he was cool at 50° with only the bag. So, I'm hoping that with the UQ hung properly (that may have been part of my problem a few nights ago -- not snug enough to the hammock) that he'll be good. If so, then he's set (except that he wants a longer hammock for comfort sake). We'll be near the house, so if we get too cool, we can go inside.

We can pack and use some additional clothes. I agree with you about going as light as possible but not foregoing creature comforts. I ought to put together a gear list spreadsheet like yours -- that looks very helpful.

[Insaniac99]

Let me know how that overnight sleeping works. I updated the list with after trip notes on what worked and what didn't which you may find helpful.

[mudburn]

Slept out last night. It got down to 41° by morning. I used a Coleman self-inflating sleeping pad with a piece of reflectix under it near my shoulders & torso. This is NOT a pad I would take backpacking -- it weighs 3.5 pounds by itself. I slept in my fleece sleeping bag and had a poncho liner at hand. I was asleep by 9:30 and awoke at 1:15am, at which time I was a little cool on top and added the poncho liner as a blanket. I slept that way until I got up shortly after 5:00am (time to get the day going). There was no problem with insulation underneath me -- I stayed nicely warm on that side. The fleece sleeping bag with proper bottom insulation was good down to somewhere around 55° (or so I guess). The pad was not uncomfortable to sleep on at all. I think I may get a blue walmart pad (or two to extend it at my shoulders). This was a good test.

I'm going to sleep in bed with my wife tonight, but I plan on doing more testing tomorrow night. I'm going to use a poncho liner as my underpad with the reflectix under that at my shoulder area. The forecast low is to be 51° tomorrow night. My orientation for planning for the unpredictable nature of the Smoky Mountains in June is that 50° is most likely the lower limit to be prepared for. We'll see if the PL works tomorrow night. I will have a 2nd one with me for an additional blanket if necessary. If it is necessary, I will see about getting a different bag rated for a little cooler (maybe a patrol bag).