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  1. #21
    MAD777's Avatar
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    Fabric Q and A for Noobs

    It depends on the vendor. Some quote the fabric weight before silicone treatment and some quote it afterward. Sometimes they tell you what the quoted weight is based upon and some don't.
    Before Dutch's Argon came out, I would have said that any advertised 1.1 silnylon is the weight of the raw fabric and it will weigh closer to 1.4 after impregnation. ( Argon weighs 1.06 oz/sy including the silicone).
    Read the fine print and email the vendor for confirmation if in doubt.
    Mike
    "Life is a Project!"

  2. #22
    sr1355's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ripstopbytheroll View Post
    To give just a little more detail on Denier, the number beside the D stands for the weight in grams of 9000 meters of the base fiber.
    Right on, with the base of 1d being a 9000m run of silk.... Working with our 15d illume fabric there was no correlation between denier (D) and thread count (T). We worked with the manufacturer to increase thread count while maintaining denier at 15d. This resulted in a tighter weave and better performance on in regards to down proof testing by IDFL. I've seen 30d calendared fabrics so loosely woven that you could see the threads, weave type and density is a critical part of fabric performance when it comes to down.
    Happy Hangin'

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  3. #23
    MAD777's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sr1355 View Post
    I've seen 30d calendared fabrics so loosely woven that you could see the threads, weave type and density is a critical part of fabric performance when it comes to down.
    I agree! Although loose weave isn't necessarily a bad thing. I have purposefully used loose weave 30D nylon as a hammock over cover. While it kept the wind from swirling inside the hammock, it breathed effortlessly and therefore reduced condensation, plus I didn't asphyxiate in my own carbon dioxide.
    Mike
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  4. #24
    Ramblinrev's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MAD777 View Post
    loose weave isn't necessarily a bad thing.
    I think this can be said for all the conversation and differences that have arisen here. At least in my case I have tried to be as neutral as possible to avoid a good/bad, better/worse comparison. There are drawbacks and benefits to each different set of characteristics. The application is what will ultimately determine which combinations are viable and which should be avoided. Unfortunately for the typical DIY artist who lacks scientific knowledge or experience gathered expertise some of those decisions can be made only by trial and error. This is to say to the OP don't get so hung up in the minutia of details that you miss the challenge and fun of exploration, failure and success. DIY is about learning as you do. Fabric is only one part of an overall design achievement.
    I may be slow... But I sure am gimpy.

    "Bless you child, when you set out to thread a needle don't hold the thread still and fetch the needle up to it; hold the needle still and poke the thread at it; that's the way a woman most always does, but a man always does t'other way."
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  5. #25
    Nhott's Avatar
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    This is all good info. I am one of those "measure twice cut once guys" I like to have everything planned out before I commit. I now have 4 hammocks and know what I like and don't for the most part and that's why I want to go the DIY route. That and I need a hobby. I'm looking to find a good balance between comfort, versatility, and weight. Everything that has been discussed gets me that much closer.
    "If you do not expect the unexpected you will not find it, for it is not to be reached by search or trail." - Heraclitus

  6. #26
    ripstopbytheroll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sr1355 View Post
    Right on, with the base of 1d being a 9000m run of silk.... Working with our 15d illume fabric there was no correlation between denier (D) and thread count (T). We worked with the manufacturer to increase thread count while maintaining denier at 15d. This resulted in a tighter weave and better performance on in regards to down proof testing by IDFL. I've seen 30d calendared fabrics so loosely woven that you could see the threads, weave type and density is a critical part of fabric performance when it comes to down.
    Thanks for responding Paul. With your points I'm now thinking that my manufacturer meant that for his current portfolio of already woven nylons, the Denier and Thread Count were connected. If you are going the route of weaving from the start, I guess you have the freedom to make those knobs independent to some degree.
    - Kyle

    www.RipstopbytheRoll.com | "1st Quality Fabric at Wholesale Prices. NO ORDER MINIMUM."

  7. #27
    sr1355's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MAD777 View Post
    I agree! Although loose weave isn't necessarily a bad thing. I have purposefully used loose weave 30D nylon as a hammock over cover. While it kept the wind from swirling inside the hammock, it breathed effortlessly and therefore reduced condensation, plus I didn't asphyxiate in my own carbon dioxide.
    I agree! LOL!!! There are certainly applications were a loose weave is a benefit, for downproof a loose weave would not be desired. And while we are on the subject of "Downproof" I really don't like that term in our industry as all suitable fabrics for use with down will pass some down. There are industry standard test results for what is acceptable for a fabric to be call "Downproof".
    Happy Hangin'

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  8. #28
    craige's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sr1355 View Post
    And while we are on the subject of "Downproof" I really don't like that term in our industry as all suitable fabrics for use with down will pass some down. There are industry standard test results for what is acceptable for a fabric to be call "Downproof".
    I've not seen a single plume of down come out of my zeppelin there was one floating around in the box when it was delivered though :O Every other down item I've owned/own has had some leakage, except the quilt. Kudos Paul!

  9. #29
    Wallyrob's Avatar
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    Great information. Thanks for the info.
    -No man is above the law and no man is below the law, nor do we ask his permission when we require him to obey it.

    Theodore Roosevelt, 1903

  10. #30

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    Great thread. Answered a lot of questions that have been bouncing around my noggin.

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