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  1. #1
    michigandave's Avatar
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    Homepage vendor warning for Underquilts.com

    This new thread is in reference to the HF homepage vendor warning for Dave aka Lost Biker and his business underquilts.com. Instead of continuing the discussion in the original thread ( https://www.hammockforums.net/forum/...572-Lost_Biker ), a suggestion was made by our mods to continue the discussion elsewhere ( https://www.hammockforums.net/forum/...=1#post1254998 ) .

    I am making a formal request to the Moderator of Hammock Forums to remove the homepage vendor warning for Underquilts.com . The posts in the above links tells the story. Thank you.
    Hangin' in the Great Lakes State

  2. #2
    sargevining's Avatar
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    Here's the thing:

    HF can kill any speculation about its motives in posting that warning by doing a couple of things:

    1. Mention the cancer. The way the thing is worded it makes Dave look like a bad dude, not somebody who's battling a life threatening disease.

    2. Express condolences and extend compassion towards the man and his family. Right now the way its worded is that everything will be OK if he just drags himself from his sickbed to plead his case before the All High Hammock King who will consider his case should he do so.

    Any excuses about how those two things aren't needed are crap, and only makes HF look worse.


    The guy has cancer.

    Cancer.

    And that post makes it look like he took the money and partied with it.

    Cancer.

    I'll say this one more time:

    The guy has cancer.

    Treat him like he was an uncle.

    An uncle with cancer.

  3. #3
    Senior Member AaronMB's Avatar
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    I agree, Sarge. Before today I've read about the warning but had not given it a read simply because I had already read the above referenced thread. I hadn't realized the warning was so--to put it nicely--sterile. On the one hand it's prudent to warn people but if we/they(?) are going to do that, at least state the cause; otherwise it's just enough to steer people away but not enough to save UQ any credibility. I realize this is not the intention but if we're going to call ourselves a community...? HF can still note that HF has not directly heard from UQ but is providing this information "...because we are more than just a community of consumers."

    Best of luck, blessings, and positive thoughts for Dave.

  4. #4
    Suede's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sargevining View Post
    Here's the thing:

    HF can kill any speculation about its motives in posting that warning by doing a couple of things:

    1. Mention the cancer. The way the thing is worded it makes Dave look like a bad dude, not somebody who's battling a life threatening disease.

    2. Express condolences and extend compassion towards the man and his family. Right now the way its worded is that everything will be OK if he just drags himself from his sickbed to plead his case before the All High Hammock King who will consider his case should he do so.

    Any excuses about how those two things aren't needed are crap, and only makes HF look worse.


    The guy has cancer.

    Cancer.

    And that post makes it look like he took the money and partied with it.

    Cancer.

    I'll say this one more time:

    The guy has cancer.

    Treat him like he was an uncle.

    An uncle with cancer.

    Agree that the warning on the home page needs updating to reflect an understanding of now-understood situation, and provides the compassionate tone and sensibilities that I know the moderators have.

    Dave has my sincerest hopes for a full and complete recovery and that his chemo treatments result in blasting his cancer to oblivion.
    John aka Suede

  5. #5
    sargevining's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Suede View Post
    Agree that the warning on the home page needs updating to reflect an understanding of now-understood situation, and provides the compassionate tone and sensibilities that I know the moderators have.

    Dave has my sincerest hopes for a full and complete recovery and that his chemo treatments result in blasting his cancer to oblivion.
    The situation was understood before the warning was put up. Look at the date on the first post here: https://www.hammockforums.net/forum/...572-Lost_Biker

    There are a couple of lessons HF can learn here:

    1. Compassion is always the right business choice in situations like this. "Sterile" is what you use when the guy has run away with the money and partied, or some other less admirable reason for not doing business the right way. You do that because calling the guy a bad due outright might get you sued. People understand that and when they read "sterile' posts like the one on the home page, that's what they read into it.

    2. Shutting down posts doesn't stop people thinking.

    3. Not only does shutting down posts not stop people thinking, it doesn't stop the conversations around the campfire or on other Hammock and camping related Social Media sites that are popping up all over the place.

    This was a well intentioned action executed poorly. The poor choice of words is reflected by the need to go in after making the post to clear up the confusion between UQ.com and UGQ. It is also reflected by the stark comparison between how HF has handled OES and UQ.com. HF could have avoided both with a bit more thought and a lot more compassion.

  6. #6
    Boothill's Avatar
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    there doesn't seem to be as much common sense on HF as there was when i first joined

    if you have $ tied up with dave and aren't getting your products or any communication i feel bad for you and wouldn't want to be in the same situation

    with that said i would gladly take that over daves circumstances, i have never met the man or even talked to him but from all indications on here, he is a decent man in an incredibly tough time in his life and in my opinion that trumps everything else!

    get well dave!

    boot
    The surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that it has never tried to contact us. ~Bill Watterson

    4th Annual Black Hills Hang Aug 20-23

  7. #7
    Ratdog's Avatar
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    Front Page warning for a non sponsoring vendor?
    Why?
    Was this ever done for any other offending vendor ever?
    If I count thread posts condemning actions/support/quality of several other vendors, will it greatly exceed the number of complaints for the vendor in question alleged by HF management?

    Would it not have been enough to post something in the Other Vendors Forum?
    Make it a sticky even.
    Anyone researching could have found it.

    Front Page negativity is bad juju.

    Perhaps an Other Vendor Forum Sticky could read something like this:

    Subject: insert vendor Y name here
    Message: X people have reported issues purchasing from vendor Y.
    Attempts to contact vendor Y by both customers and HF have gone without response.
    Z people have reported orders placed that have gone unfulfilled for Delta months.

    As always, buyer beware.

    NOTE: the vendor Y has publicly stated that there are serious overwhelming health considerations impacting their family and the HF community wishes them well and is pulling for the best possible outcome. For those wishing to contribute to the support of Insert Name Here, a paypal fund has been established and you may find the link here.

    We hope to update you soon with positive news regarding the health concerns and resumption of business as usual.
    Have sherpas, will travel...

  8. #8
    michigandave's Avatar
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    All valid points, sargevining. It comes down to whether or not it is the role of HF Management to play "Big Brother" in members purchasing decisions. IMO, that is not the roll of HF. Last time I looked there was no "HF Certified Vendor" logo that is included on their website.

    I understand that this is a forum. There are plenty of tools available to members to do their own research regarding purchasing from vendors and to find out about other HF members interaction with that vendor. It's easy enough to search a forum, start a thread or PM other members about their experience. It's not like this is the first time a vendor hasn't had interaction with customers in a timely manner.....Or did I miss a previous HF homepage vendor warning relating to it?
    Last edited by michigandave; 05-09-2014 at 08:09.
    Hangin' in the Great Lakes State

  9. #9
    Senior Member bowl-maker's Avatar
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    I have never ordered from UQ.com, but I have randomly read posts about the things he has made. I also randomly noted a post quite a while back about him having cancer.
    I, too, was disappointed by the advertisement on the front-page of HF. I, too, wondered if HF applied this "vendor warning" policy unilaterally. I, too, have randomly seen posts about OES having problems and wondered why I have not seen a HF warning about this vendor.

    I, too, think the front-page warning is a bit dispassionate and implies that the owner of UQ.com is doing something wrong and needs to be avoided.

  10. #10
    K0m4's Avatar
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    Ok, enough has been said already about it, but I'll give my 2 cents anyway.

    I logged on after a time of absence, and saw the warning. It raised my eyebrows, it's unusual, and I thought "good, people are looking out for each other". A while later came the post about the condition. So here's my take:

    It was correct to post the warning. The wording can be hashed back and forth (that's my dayjob, mind you), but to my knowledge it was perfectly within reason. Lots of members already spend a lot of money on gear, and if there's a consistent failure from a vendor to fulfil commitments I think the admins have every justification to warn its community. There are a million ways it can be done (stickies, posts, threads), but this one is not wrong.

    It would be equally correct to change the warning, to include that there are reasons for the failure that most will understand (spell out or not - I'm with the not spelling them out camp; also wouldn't want my medical history posted on a site without my consent). The reasons have become known, it seems nobody is faulting the vendor - imho nobody should - as there are special circumstances to say the least. He should shut the site down, but give the guy a break. In the mean time, the warning could be changed - not removed, as the site still is up - along the lines of what many have proposed.

    Caveat: I'm typing this from half-way around the world, so I don't know many of the factors. I'm happy to be stood corrected, and/or ignored.

    Solemnly hoping the man prevails in what is arguably the toughest fight an individual can face.

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