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  1. #1
    Member mr tickle's Avatar
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    Odd shaped synthetic UQ always too loose or tight

    As per the title.

    I have been having endless problems, either i get compressed spots or i get sagging insulation, im not sure which is the lesser evil but im gonna go ahead and dislike both. In another post i basically went through a load of Q+A trying to figure out what i was doing wrong, if i was, after taking all advice i'm finally going to blame the quilt.

    So basically any advice on this would be great!

    Basically i own one of these:
    http://www.snugpak.com/outdoor/exped...-under-blanket

    My main idea is trying to replicate a diff cut quilt with darts so i can get the loose areas taught without over compressing my shoulder area. I can open it up at each end to turn it inside out. I am just not sure:

    a) what size to make the darts
    b) where to place them
    c) if i need to place them in the insulation or can just modify the shell (hammock side)
    d) if it will even work

    I am also interested to know whether it is worth adding a layer of mylar space blanket or other materials on the top side to help the situation.

    EDIT: I am also considering finding some foam like is used in the HH SS to make an intermediate layer to take up the compression at a minimal weight penalty. I guess that would also make a great warm weather UQ. Although i have no idea what that foam is, i have never seen it, and it costs more to post the hennessy underpad to the UK than it does to buy it.
    Last edited by mr tickle; 06-02-2014 at 03:57. Reason: Need alternative solution

  2. #2
    Senior Member nuttysquirrel's Avatar
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    that will not work. you add darts to a uq shell out of neccesity, to take up the extra fabric since the outer shell is larger than the inside. adding darts to a quilt with the same sized inner and outer shell wont really do anything at all. BUT, its sythetic, so i wouldn't worry about a diff cut at all. i love my jarbidge, which is not diff cut and sythetic and have had 0 issues.

  3. #3
    Member mr tickle's Avatar
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    Bugger, never mind then.

    I am confident i am hanging it correctly. I have already had some great advice on hanging it in another thread i made here if you would like to have a look and see if something has been missed since you seem to have it pinned down.

    I am also not convinced compression of synthetics should not be an issue because it is proving to be a big issue. Less dead air space is less warmth end of, perhaps not noticable in warmer weather but i certainly felt the cold spots throughout winter.

    Is it worth considering slipping a space blanket in the top side, or a piece of foam like the henessy supershelter (it has an egg box style texture that looks like it might take up the compression at minimal weight penalty).


    NOTE TO MOD:
    I have tweaked the first post and merged this into it to see if i can spur an alternate solution to a faux diff cut. If a mod could rectify the title to match post #1 that would be great
    Last edited by mr tickle; 06-01-2014 at 02:31. Reason: Change of direction

  4. #4
    Senior Member nuttysquirrel's Avatar
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    you may just be hanging it to tight. try losening the suspention.

  5. #5
    Member mr tickle's Avatar
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    Nope, obviously i have tried the obvious things :P

    Like i say, it might be best to read my other thread before trying to suggest fix's regarding the actual fitting technique of the UQ and the replying in that same thread (not that i don't appreciate the help). I'm quite sure i have treid all avenues regarding how it is rigged

    I'm simply looking in this thread for a way to reduce the effect via modification of the quilt.
    Last edited by mr tickle; 06-02-2014 at 03:42.

  6. #6
    Member mr tickle's Avatar
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    Right i think i have pinned down why it is happening. It does appear to be the shape after all although i might have misinterpreted things.

    According to this it is based on the potomac uq:
    https://www.hammockforums.net/forum/...hp/t-2290.html

    According to this the potomac is design for the HH asym:
    http://www.arrowhead-equipment.com/kick-***-quilts.html

    (Ok so the word [a s s] in the link is disallowed so the link won't work, hah, but im sure you know how to find the site What a silly thing to block, i notice i also can't say d a m n but can say pillock, moron and asshat which are actually demeaning to people where the others are not?! Most amusing.)

    Here is a comparison of appearance (top view):
    https://www.hammockforums.net/forum/...er-quilt-shape - potomac
    http://www.snugpak.com/outdoor/exped...-under-blanket - snugpak (item in question ofc)

    It seems the shape is the reason. Looking at photo's of the potomac it does look the same shape.

    I am not sure if this brings any potential solution to mind for those in the know. I cant picture how it this would work , but maybe simply flipping it might work? I will try later. I understand it wont make it diff cut but would adding a dart to the slack area work? (always my right side, i lay with my feet to the left).

    I mean realistically if i can get rid of that slack area i can hang it looser and remove compression!

    Failing a fix my only option is to make one so even a speculative suggestion for modification could prove very helpful
    Last edited by mr tickle; 06-02-2014 at 07:12.

  7. #7
    Senior Member
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    Could you use binder clips or something like that to simulate the sewing that you are envisioning to see if it will work before you sew it?

  8. #8
    Senior Member WV's Avatar
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    You seem willing to put some work into getting it right, so I'll suggest something radical, based on the way I attach my shaped UQ to my insulated hammock. Try sewing a couple of buttons to the top cover of your Snugpak in the places where it is sagging. Then sew small bungee loops (I use 1/16" bungee cord) to the underside of the hammock that line up with the buttons. You'll need to locate them carefully, which means having someone help while you are lying in the hammock. You can reinforce the places where you sew the loops to the hammock by using a 1/2" square piece of iron-on fabric patch. That will strengthen it enough that one or two small stitches with strong thread will hold the loop and you won't feel it underneath you. While you measure, hang the Snugpak pretty tight, then once you have the loops and buttons attached loosen it enough that it's not compressed anywhere. Try to use as few buttons as you can. Maybe try just one under your knees at first. Then have your friend inspect it again, looking for places that it sags. One other thought - I don't know how the Snugpak is made. It's possible that attaching a button to hold the top layer close to the hammock would let the bottom layer and the insulation sag so there would be an internal air pocket. If that's so, you could easily fix it by adding a quilting loop sewn through the Snugpak to limit how far apart they can be, but don't do it unless needed.

    I don't know what sort of suspension you use, but quilt hooks and small bungees attaching the quilt to the edges of the hammock can give a better fit without compressing the insulation, and they can be adjustable. Similarly a lightweight bungee in a channel around the edges (with multiple locations for adjustment) can close edge gaps without compressing the center, but, again, only add this modification if you need it.

    I'm convinced that a simple UQ attached with precision and care can do the job of a much more expensive down UQ that relies on puffiness (and sacrifices some of it) to eliminate air gaps. Do something nice for the friend who helped you inspect and mark and measure and inspect again. They will have earned it. Good luck!

  9. #9
    Member mr tickle's Avatar
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    There are some really simple yet great ideas there!

    Indeed i am certainly willing to put any amount of work for a resolve, i rely on my hammock every month whatever the weather may be, so time and effort is worth it.

    The one thing that comes to mind is do you think i would feel the stitched loops in the hammock, and if so, do you think self adhesive velcro tabs may be a strong enough alternative? I have never used the stuff.

    The only one of those suggestions i cant see working is the quilt hooks, but only because the quilt is a little wider than the hammock in that area meaning i would have to clip it to my tarp ridge line. I'm not sure i would take the chance in heavy rain i have had water run along the inside of my tarp before for some reason so it could wick .

    Ill get cracking after a brew [or two, or three] and see how it will play out.

    Thanks for the great suggestions, very much appreciated

  10. #10
    Member mr tickle's Avatar
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    Right, have tried a few things, feel free to skip straight to the 'resolution' part at the bottom as most of it is just trouble shooting and observation. Here is how it turned out:

    1) Flipping it over:


    No difference at all. This struck me as odd as it is a clone of an asym quilt design. I laid it out on the floor and looked at it. What they have done is remove the asym aspect of it so i was incorrect about that, but they did just mirror the design minus this aspect. So, it is basically just an oval cut piece of insulation/fabric.

    That underlined one issue with the quilt. By default that extra length has to be taken up to meet the shape of the user. It is not a tailored fit like i first thought. That means by default it is going to have little free material at the bottom and excess on the outer edge.


    2) Quilt hooks:

    I tried the quilt hooks where the sag is. It took up the slack space, but there was so much slack material taken up that it actually 'cucooned' me in on one side, the side i get my view from which for me is one of the main attractions to a hammock gone. It also created compression points in the insulation under my butt.

    At this point i concluded that no matter which way i look at it, since the length on each side is so long due to the curvature there was no way to take up that slack without compressing the bottom.


    3) Reducing the length of the edges:

    I took up some length from the edge by clamping it with my hand to replicate a perpendicular dart, near a foot of length was taken up. Basically this worked, but it still sat really high on my right side and removed my view. This confirmed that even if they used less curvature on the edges, the quilt was too wide for this hammock in the centre, which is 1.5m wide and tbh wider than a good few on the market.


    4) Adding fixing points to the hammock:

    This is going to be really obvious now, but upon having someone hold it in place where it would need to be done, i still would end up with near a foot of overhang at the edge of the hammock/quilt.


    Conclusion, with a compromise remedy:

    I started thinking about how i did not notice all this slack before, it was because of my under quilt protector, i couldn't see it folding and to some degree it had taken up some of the slack. I have spent more time on google looking and confirmed that most users seem to have a fold in these quilts in the same place. Depending on my position in the hammock the fold expands and leaves a trench which vents out of the ends.

    The quilt, in what i suspect is an attempt to save material, actually wastes a lot of it and in the process compromised the area the most important. It is no good having all this slack and folded insulation on my sides when my butt is getting cold from trying to take up the slack. Likewise a fold/gap is no better. For the time being i am just going to have it really loose and use my under quilt protector as the outer shell to keep it against the hammock, which appears to get a better fit than the quilt can by itself. This means the quilt cant breath well though, and it is summer. Basically this has really annoyed me, both on the design front and my stupidity for not noticing sooner.

    In retrospect, of course the length of the edges being so long was going to do this. I could not discourage this oval cut design any more if i tried, it is just not the same thing as an oval achieved via the diff cut and i think more problematic than resolve. I understand this is to make it fit the shape of the hammock and allegedly save weight, but it's a cheap, short cut way to do it and it has given cheap results. It weighs over 1.2kg and fails at it's job, that is shocking. Granted, it is not always noticeable, but when it is, it ruins a night out.

    If somebody can provide factual information as to why any of this is incorrect, i will recant my words.

    I have sent a rant to Snugpak underlining the issue and the poor design of both the lack of shock cords on the end of the quilt and the flat oval design. I don't expect they will, but i asked they review the product since a lot has changed in quilt design since this failure was released and there is a calling for a good option in the UK. Hopefully, they might release a new model, although i do doubt it as many fair weather campers still advocate this piece of cr*p. I really would like to see UK hammocks take on a synthetic design too, after some research their down models look to be suberb and such a thing must be well within their capability.


    Resolution:


    I'm going to make my own since my only other option is to import.

    If anybody has some good designs for a diff cut 3/4 synthetic underquilt please let me know. I know roughly what to do, i just don't know where to cut the darts in the insulation and fabric to get the correct shape to avoid compression. Does it change with amount of loft or is it some standard formula?

    I used to have a good site bookmarked, but the link is dead. I have spent a good few hours on google looking, but all the designs i can find are either for IX or Down.

    I will be working with climashield apex, probably using 3oz layers (it is actually a little higher rated at 133 g/m^2 in metric, standard 3oz is 100 g/m^2, the 133 is just rounded down in ounces), which is 25mm, or 1" thick in american measures.

    I will be making two, one single layer for summer, one double layer for 4 season. I might knock up a three layer for when i know it is going to be really bad too or devise a method to join them via velcro or toggles. The materials are not badly priced, so i figured why not.

    I will be following something similar to:
    http://www.cwhammocks.com/diy-underquilt-instructions/

    Only the above does not have the diff cut. Any design patterns or suggestions would be great, once i have a rough plan i will start a thread to figure out the minor detail and materials, this is just to get the ball rolling!

    Thank for taking the time to read this, and for the help received so far
    Last edited by mr tickle; 06-06-2014 at 20:07.

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