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Thread: Maccat?

  1. #41
    Senior Member ShakeyLeggs's Avatar
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    I can understand all the griping about the availability of Brains tarps. But it is not as if Brain does not keep everyone apprised of what is going on.

    I am 19 and currently attending the University of Rochester at Rochester, New York, where I am hopeful to major in Mechanical Engineering. Taking 19 credits worth of college courses up at Rochester, including (currently) Statics, Intro to CAD, Calc 2, Physics (Mechanics) and more takes quite a bit of time, and thus most of my time is spent trying to keep my GPA up where I would like it to be


    Also he has a page where he updates pretty regularlly as to what is going on.

    It is not as if anyone who wants one of his tarps is in the dark as to what is going on. And in my opinion if they don't know what is going on then they need to read a little more.

    If because of all the complaining Brian decided to up and call it quits with the tarps I would not be surprised. But from what I know of Brian I don't see that happening.
    A Bad Day On The Trail Is Better Than A Great Day At Work!!!


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  2. #42
    New Member Ramble On's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShakeyLeggs View Post
    If because of all the complaining Brian decided to up and call it quits with the tarps I would not be surprised. But from what I know of Brian I don't see that happening.
    [/FONT]
    This has been my biggest fear since I saw the complaining start.

    Brian seems to be a very hard working guy, in school and out.

    I'm coming late to the game, and just hoping to get a couple of tarps from him soon.

    If there are people out there who are too impatient to wait, then they should go out and buy a different tarp, there are plenty of different tarps available. Short of that, make your own, or take the plans to your local tailor / sewing circle and pay someone else to do it. There is no reason to come in here and huff and puff. If you are unhappy, just move on, and make room for those that appreciate the work that IS being done by this guy.

    I think that any of us that have looked into buying a tarp from Brian, also have looked into making them, and can easily see that he isn't making much $$$ from them. So, it seems his motivation to make these tarps has to be more of a labor of love, either a love of the work or a love of the community (I'd guess the later). The man deserves understanding and respect.

    -Ramble On

  3. #43
    Senior Member Coldspring's Avatar
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    You said it Ramble On. It's not a right to own a MacCat, it's a privilege.

  4. #44
    Senior Member NCPatrick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ramble On View Post
    Short of that, make your own, or take the plans to your local tailor / sewing circle and pay someone else to do it. There is no reason to come in here and huff and puff. If you are unhappy, just move on, and make room for those that appreciate the work that IS being done by this guy.
    Isn't that the crux of the issue, though? Paying someone else to do it? Suppose I do get paid to make a tarp based on Brian's idea. I'd be accused of stealing or pirating his work because I used his design to make a profit? Is it only pirating if someone here sews it, but someone completely unrelated to this site is ok? People here seem to be refusing to sew someone else's tarp for any reason, because they'd then be branded unethical or immoral and would take the bread off of Brian's table and he would starve. (a little melodramatic, sorry). I do want Brian to succeed and prosper. He makes a great product.

    Theoretically, and for the sake of furthering the discussion, is it just a matter of scale? If I were to ramp up operations to make 100's of tarps based on Brian's design (or Blackbishop's, which was based on Brian's) and then claim the design was my own, that would be unethical ,and ok, immoral too. On the other hand, a one-off or two-off should reasonably be ok if Brian is incommunicado for extended periods of time, as he has been, and my good friends here want one and supposing I were actually capable of producing one for them. That's not really going to cut into Brian's business. I'd also be sure to give the design credit to Brian, as I think we're all perfectly willing to do here. Do we send Brian a cut of whatever profit we make? Are we licensing his design somehow? If we make one for ourselves using the design, are we stealing it for our own benefit?

    IMO, we fall into the fast deep water when we start labeling folks immoral or unethical for simply discussing an issue. Let's not get all heavy handed about the discussions here. This one in particular has been very helpful to me in figuring out where the lines are drawn between DIY and for profit gear making.
    Last edited by NCPatrick; 05-14-2007 at 07:17.

  5. #45
    Senior Member ShakeyLeggs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NCPatrick View Post
    Isn't that the crux of the issue, though? Paying someone else to do it? Suppose I do get paid to make a tarp based on Brian's idea. I'd be accused of stealing or pirating his work because I used his design to make a profit? Is it only pirating if someone here sews it, but someone completely unrelated to this site is ok? People here seem to be refusing to sew someone else's tarp for any reason, because they'd then be branded unethical or immoral and would take the bread off of Brian's table and he would starve. (a little melodramatic, sorry). I do want Brian to succeed and prosper. He makes a great product.

    Theoretically, and for the sake of furthering the discussion, is it just a matter of scale? If I were to ramp up operations to make 100's of tarps based on Brian's design (or Blackbishop's, which was based on Brian's) and then claim the design was my own, that would be unethical ,and ok, immoral too. On the other hand, a one-off or two-off should reasonably be ok if Brian is incommunicado for extended periods of time, as he has been, and my good friends here want one and supposing I were actually capable of producing one for them. That's not really going to cut into Brian's business. I'd also be sure to give the design credit to Brian, as I think we're all perfectly willing to do here. Do we send Brian a cut of whatever profit we make? Are we licensing his design somehow? If we make one for ourselves using the design, are we stealing it for our own benefit?

    IMO, we fall into the fast deep water when we start labeling folks immoral or unethical for simply discussing an issue. Let's not get all heavy handed about the discussions here. This one in particular has been very helpful to me in figuring out where the lines are drawn between DIY and for profit gear making.
    I agree with everything you said. My suggestion would be that if someone is in such a hurry then they should do one of two things. If they have the skill set to make one as Blackbishop did then they should. If in the event they are unable to make one then purchase one of the myriad of other tarps on the market.

    When I decided to get an aftermarket tarp for my Hammock I wanted a MacCat. I knew at that time that my chances of getting one was slim to none due to Brian being in school and I do not have the skill set to make on. So I decided to get another tarp from a different supplier until Brian got back up and running. But I was lucky and one came up for sale on WhiteBlaze and I was lucky enough to be able to purchase it. There are many other tarps out there that will fit the bill until someone can get one off Brian. I do not or will not condone anyone stepping up and manufacturing Brian's tarps and selling them with out his prior knowledge and consent.
    A Bad Day On The Trail Is Better Than A Great Day At Work!!!


    -.- -... ...-- ... -.-- --..


  6. #46
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    I was talking about this to a friend of mine. She replied that our group sounds really idealistic. To which I replied, "Thank you".

    I think like Jeff said there is a reason we consider other here our online/hiking/hammocking buddies. The same arguement could be applied to someone who marketed their own hammock that would be a Speer knockoff. A design that Ed himself puts out there for people to make. A design that is also simple yet effective and the bases for most of our DIY hammocks. It would not be hard or illegal for someone to market a hammock of that design. But I think a lot of us would step up and call the person on this.
    Is that too much to ask? Girls with frikkin' lasers on their heads?
    The hanger formly known as "hammock engineer".

  7. #47
    Senior Member NCPatrick's Avatar
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    Is it wrong then to help someone by sewing a BlackCat or MacCat clone for them? I'm talking about helping out our online/hiking/hammocking buddies who don't happen to sew.

  8. #48
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    I think that is the grey area. I don't see a problem with helping someone out like that. I have made a few things for other people. I think my issue would be starting production without the consent of the designer.
    Is that too much to ask? Girls with frikkin' lasers on their heads?
    The hanger formly known as "hammock engineer".

  9. #49
    Jazilla's Avatar
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    The making of one or two for a friend is one thing. Making them for others when Brian is unavailable is a totally different animal. I am a firm believer in If a man makes it and sells it then it is his product, patented or no. I wouldn't want someone else producing for others an idea I came up with. A man takes pride in his business. A sense of accomplishment is felt when someone tells them I want one of what you have cause I hear its the best. I just can't accept another man's praise.
    Yosemite Sam: Are you trying to make me look a fool?
    Bugs: You don't need me to make you look like a fool.
    Yosemite Sam: Yer deerrrnnn right I don't!

  10. #50
    Brian's Avatar
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    I just want to chime in to this thread after reading through the new content several times. I would like to again thank all of you for your support. As Ramble On stated, I really do this out of a labor of love. For one, I use my own stuff when I go hiking. On the other hand, I picked an awesome group of people to work for. Hikers are always nice, friendly, innovative and caring when it comes to me and my availability.

    As for availability, I will be upfront in sharing that I am leaving to work at a summer camp at the end of June through Mid August. This is a camp that I attended for 8 years as a camper and I am thrilled to be going back to return as a leader. In light of that, I will be working 40-50 hour weeks between now and then to get every order shipped that I can.

    At my last estimate, there are about 150 MacCat tarps floating around the world as a result of my work over the past 2-3 years. This last semester I managed to add about 20 to that number, all the while maintaining my status on the Deans List at the U of Rochester for both semesters. Next semester looks even better as I have more space and hopefully time to keep getting tarps out and in the hands of all of you who want and need them. I also had a discussion with BB over his web instructions, and clarified some of the techniques that I use for the good of the community. So with that in mind, I hope that my periodic unavailability does not hamper the image that I am doing good work not only for myself st school but for the hiking community at large.

    Thanks again to everyone,
    Brian
    OES

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