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  1. #21
    Senior Member Ramblinrev's Avatar
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    It's also difficult to decide who is an "elder" because there are different lists for different areas. I may be one of the few who remember how the term "thread injector" was coined and came into use. I know I was one of the first to get to the down and dirty, nitty gritty discussions about DIY. At one point my video series was the only thing aimed at beginners available for DIY. Lots of folks cut their teeth on those. Frankly, they are worse for wear and have been surpassed by many other resources. But they'll stay available cause I don't have anything else to do with them.
    I may be slow... But I sure am gimpy.

    "Bless you child, when you set out to thread a needle don't hold the thread still and fetch the needle up to it; hold the needle still and poke the thread at it; that's the way a woman most always does, but a man always does t'other way."
    Mrs. Loftus to Huck Finn

    We Don't Sew... We Make Gear! video series

    Important thread injector guidelines especially for Newbies

    Bobbin Tension - A Personal Viewpoint

  2. #22
    TallPaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by olddog View Post

    Was this what you were looking for? Not usually this verbose but I just bought my first bottle of Bourbon in over a month. D.a.m.n. it's good!
    I enjoyed the read OG. You should have said best enjoyed with some bourbon at the start. Then it would be like sitting around a campfire hearing this.

  3. #23
    SilvrSurfr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ramblinrev View Post
    It's also difficult to decide who is an "elder" because there are different lists for different areas. I may be one of the few who remember how the term "thread injector" was coined and came into use. I know I was one of the first to get to the down and dirty, nitty gritty discussions about DIY.
    I thought you coined the term "thread injector!" And I have truly enjoyed your vids on sewing.

    I've been hammocking for four years, I'm 54 years old, I have 5,739 posts on HF, and I still wouldn't consider myself an elder or an expert. I'm just another man on a journey.
    "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds." Ralph Waldo Emerson

  4. #24
    Senior Member Ramblinrev's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilvrSurfr View Post
    I thought you coined the term "thread injector!"
    I don't remember who exactly coined the term but it wasn't me. At the time we had a small cadre of DIY enthusiasts. In fact you could probably count the core of us without taking off you shoes. Now we need several barefoot friends, As we were discussing the process of making our own gear people, mostly guys, expressed some intimidation at the thought of sitting down at a sewing machine. It had _absolutely nothing_ to do with gender assignment. It was the complete foreign nature of the gizmo itself. The dials, knobs and prongy things were just baffling. So some one pointed out that a sewing machine was nothing but a power tool. And "guys" (read Dave Barry for full understanding) were never cowed by power tools. The original terms was "gear driven power thread injector" which was later shortened to the current term. We then, and this may have been me, determined that "sewing" and "gear making" were two related but different things. "Sewing" encompasses much more... such as garment making, tailoring, fitting, pattern construction and some very technical things which went way beyond the basics of hemming and joining pieces of fabric. On a par with "cabinetry" and "making bookshelves." Everything you need to know about "sewing" is contained in "gear making" but the expectations and level of difficulty are vastly different. Thus was born the "We Don't Sew.... We Make Gear" mantra. Again having no connection at all to gender expectations, but to help people understand that _anybody_ can put together a usable piece of gear, just like anybody can assemble a book shelf. No need to be intimidated. Just pick up some basic skills and have at it.

    All of this is to say wisdom begets wisdom. We've gone from "what the &*^%$ is a flat felled seam" to now having people who can guide us in the process of repairing and overhauling sewing machines. So who _exactly_ is the "elder"? The guy who broke the ice, or the people who came along later and added to the body of knowledge? I think it is tough to say. I also think it bespeaks a little hubris to claim the "elder" title for oneself. It is more likely to be given by others.
    I may be slow... But I sure am gimpy.

    "Bless you child, when you set out to thread a needle don't hold the thread still and fetch the needle up to it; hold the needle still and poke the thread at it; that's the way a woman most always does, but a man always does t'other way."
    Mrs. Loftus to Huck Finn

    We Don't Sew... We Make Gear! video series

    Important thread injector guidelines especially for Newbies

    Bobbin Tension - A Personal Viewpoint

  5. #25
    SilvrSurfr's Avatar
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    I know people who've been hammock camping a lot less longer than me who know a lot more. Maybe they are more into hammocks than me, or more into making gear, or hiking or whatever. They spend more time on it (and probably more money) than me. Hammock elder? Nah, hammock guru! He who has the most knowledge is the expert.

    That's the one thing I enjoy about group hangs - better than reading any thread, is meeting the people you looked up to when you were just learning hammocks. The people who answered your stupid questions, commented on your trip reports, gave you advice and such. I kinda looked up to Dylan and Syb (local Jersey boys) when I was a noob. I read all their posts and checked out their gear and I wanted to be just like them!

    Now, not so much. Those old fogies are semi-retired and can't be considered elders or gurus. My grandmamma gets out more than they do (and she's dead).
    "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds." Ralph Waldo Emerson

  6. #26
    Senior Member MAD777's Avatar
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    Thanks olddog for pointing out that the heart of this forum goes far beyond hammocks.

    SS is right. I have almost 9,000 posts and usually learn something new on any day that I open the forum.
    Mike
    "Life is a Project!"

  7. #27
    Senior Member WV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwright View Post
    Heck, I'd settle for just hearing what WV has forgot.
    Hah! So would I!

    But really, I should have taken the OP's question more seriously. I've really enjoyed the thoughts of Olddog, RamblinRev, and many others. I'll try to draft something later.

    Oh yeah. SilvrSurfr, watch out for those old guys who you thought had "gone to ground." They have a phoenix-like way of rising from their campfire ashes (or woodstove, in the case of Syb).
    Last edited by WV; 06-28-2014 at 14:14.

  8. #28
    Senior Member Ramblinrev's Avatar
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    Something to consider in all of this is the change in the assumed knowledge base that has taken place over time. Take the 30* hang angle as an example. In the "old days" HH was advising the hammock be strung tightly with minimum sag. The standard "strap that thing up tight or you'll regret it" line was the suggestion of almost every one out side of these forums. Then some of us noticed that if we hung the hammocks looser we slept better, sank less overnight, got rid of most of the thigh ridge and just generally had a better experience. Enter the quants. These engineers, mathematicians, theorists and others filled the pages with the equations and language that established, objectively, the 30* hang was not only more comfortable but easier on the supports and just generally all around better. I can't honestly say I "miss" the equations since in order to miss something you need to understand what is not there. But the point is, now the 30* hang is spoken of in matter of fact, central piece of knowledge. It was not always that way but it has become that way.

    The quants shared the equations for a true catenary curve. They posted the points that needed to be entered to make a "real" cat cut tarp. This allowed us to understand by the time you take into consideration the inaccuracies of the scissor cuts and the vagaries of the needle work, by the time the skilled DIY builder actually made the thing, its resemblance to a true cat curve was nominal at best. In reality, as long as the curve was close enough and smooth enough the strict adherence to the math was not essential. I'm not sure anyone still plots their curve positions every 1.5" along the tarp edge. Close enough is good enough. But that was a process of discovery driven by the quants.

    The 83% fixed structural ridgeline length is another quant driven piece of knowledge that has become a given in the forums of today. Once the quants established the fundamental bases of the hammocks and those bases became "common knowledge" the quants went off and did their thing somewhere else. That's not to say they are no longer here. But they are not as active in the postings, nor are they filling the threads with stuff that only they understand. But we have all reaped the benefit of their skills, gifts and contributions.

    Without that background we would not be where we are today. Are they "elders" that we need to resurrect? I don't think so, but we certainly need to extend the gratitude and acknowledgement for that foundation they gave us.
    I may be slow... But I sure am gimpy.

    "Bless you child, when you set out to thread a needle don't hold the thread still and fetch the needle up to it; hold the needle still and poke the thread at it; that's the way a woman most always does, but a man always does t'other way."
    Mrs. Loftus to Huck Finn

    We Don't Sew... We Make Gear! video series

    Important thread injector guidelines especially for Newbies

    Bobbin Tension - A Personal Viewpoint

  9. #29
    Senior Member WV's Avatar
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    For those who want to delve into ancient history, here's a link to the old Yahoo Hammock Group, with its links to posts covering the years 2003 to 2011. There is much wisdom there, but you have to search for it. As RamblinRev says, it's also interesting for what was not known.

  10. #30
    Senior Member BillyBob58's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MAD777 View Post
    Ha! I choked on this one WV!
    Me too!

    Quote Originally Posted by WV View Post
    Well here are some names for you: Ed Speer, Dave Womble, Risk, Just Jeff, Angry Sparrow, Cannibal, Gargoyle ... and the list goes on. You want to know the information these folks have stored away, and so do I.
    Quote Originally Posted by pgibson View Post
    I don't think there was ever any trouble getting those folks WV listed to talk....the foundation of this forum is built with those particular folks words. The trouble is that they have (for the most part) decided to no longer participate here because of various reasons. I don't think any of those reasons involve a lack of wanting to talk about hammocks.
    Quote Originally Posted by peanuts View Post
    but unfortunately these people are no longer active on this site. and that is a very sad statement to make...
    Yep, mostly gone but not forgotten. But most of their thoughts are still here if you can find it. Lot's of good stuff! I still have Ed's book that I learned so much from. Hey here is a bit of generally unappreciated wisdom that I got from Ed, and Angrysparrow seemed to agree: a Speer Pea Pod! I had been in love with my Claytor/PeaPod combo for bombproof, no hassle warmth for a while when I went on the 1st HF Sipsey trip Feb 09, the time it snowed about 5" on us, in AL! That trip I tried my new JRB bridge and MW UQ for something new. It worked just fine, but Angrysparrow was hanging on one side of me with my old favorite PeaPod and was totally warm top and bottom. Hanging on the other side of me was Mr.Prez with another of my old favs, the HHSS. I think he was warm enough also, just as I have always been with that setup. That was a while ago now! It was also one heck of a group hang!
    Bill

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