Is down really the best?

[pineapplenewton]

I have been reading alot on this site and ive manly read about insulation and everyone here says that down has the best insulation per pound but Im not sure. I know alot of you have been camping for alot longer then i have so you have more experience than i do but i just feel like there are artificial insulation that are better then down. Well if that was true than wouldn't you know about it? the reason i think you might not have heard about the advance in insulation technology is that your all hammockers you use quilts not bags. Im confused because if down still is best then why are bags rated for the same temperature getting smaller and lighter. If down is best then why is this possible?

[Ramblinrev]

I suspect the ability to harvest very fine down has improved over the years. There is no doubt that synthetic technology has imprved as well. However as down has become finer and finer the lofting ability of the down has increased. Less down creating more loft means less weight for greater warmth. I doubt very much the loft thinknesses needed to provide certain benefits have changed. But I know that in both down and synthetic insulation the weights have decreased.

In so far as down being "best" that is a matter of application and preference.

[Brian]

In my experience, I have yet to discover a better substitute for nature's goodness, aka down. There are a few synthetic analogs that come close, but no matter what you're looking to insulate - quilt, bag, underquilt, vest, booties, etc - if you can afford it and know the risks, down is just the way to go.

I think the reason that bags are improving weight wise is there are better designs in the market, using less/lighter materials and higher fill quality down. Expensive? Usually. Worth it? Every penny! I love my homemade down quilt, and wouldn't trade it for the world.

[Dutch]

Another thing about down is it is very compressable. I hope a synthetic can beat it someday but i don't think that day has come yet. I just made another down quilt and it is so much work to sew the baffles and then fill, but boy is it worth it. It is 48x78x1/2 and weighs just over 14 ounces. Youd think the space program would give us bigger advances in this area.

[beep]

Another down advantage is durability. Synthetic fills start to lose their loft with each compression. After a season or two, the loss of loft (aka insulation) is noticeable. Down isn't immune to this, but the rate of loss is miniscule and can be generally helped with proper washing when needed.

Down needs more care...doesn't like being wet at all...but is weight vs loft and warmth champ.

[pineapplenewton]

is loft actually what you want or is it that with down its was to get your temperature by measuring loft also the synthetics like in the bags i mentioned have two huge advantages one it doesn't clump and it keeps you worm when wet. The not clumping may be more helpful in a bag then in a quilt because the quilt hangs in a way that lets the clumps separate.

[warbonnetguy]

just compare the weights and stuffed volume of similarly rated down vs synthetic winter bags. the down bag will be alot lighter and compress alot smaller. down also lasts longer than synthetic which loses it's loft after a few seasons of heavy use.

synthetic bags are already cheaper and better when wet, if they were also lighter and warmer for the weight, then down would be obsolete and no one would use it. all the major sleeping bag manufactuers' top of the line bags are down.

[warbonnetguy]

the down won't clump unless it gets really soaked, which is easily avoidable. if you can manage to keep your down dry which most down users take the necessary precautions to do, then down is the hands down winner. "better when soaked" is the only category (besides price) where synthetic wins.

[lori]

The way to increase warmth without increasing bulk is to get a higher quality of down. The higher the quality, the less down you need to stay warm. My 800fp quilts amaze people because they are accustomed to the 650fp down bags one finds at REI. I doubted too, when I got the 3 season Hudson River quilt it seemed so insubstantial compared to the Marmot and Big Agnes sleeping bags I looked at. But sleeping with one under the hammock and another over me down to freezing changed my mind.

I have a synthetic quilt. It's very warm, but it also takes up half my pack. I can pack two down quilts into less space. I take the down, I loan the synthetic.

[Tiki]

Down is the best as far as I am concerned.

People here summed it up well.

Down -

Pro:
-Compressibility
-Lightest - Best/Warmth to weight ratio
-Way more durable

Cons
-Expensive for better fill
-Won't insulate if soaked, takes a long time to dry.
-Allergies. Some people and down don't mix.


Synthetic

Pro
-Price - Often (not allways) cheaper
-Insulates when wet.

Con
-Bulky (Some 0 or -20 bags are ridiculously huge)
-Heavy.. still not "light as a feather"
-Lack of Durability. The newest, greatest, latest.. are the first to break down.. Some types of syn fill are more durable.. but weigh more and compress less.


A good down sleeping bag can last 20 years. A good synthetic sleeping bag make it 3 or 4 years before it gets "cold spots" or tears/holes/permanent compression of the internal insulation.

Down will deteriorate over the years too.. just not as much or as quickly.

IMO - If you are buying a bag/quilt for a 12 year old boy scout.. get them a synthetic beater bag. They will either melt it on a campfire, get it wet, or well.. whatever they do with it.. in general they will not have enough wisdom, skills, or foresight to keep it dry.

For a beginner camper. Go for down if you want.. Just keep it dry. get/make a sil dry bag for it. A little moisture won't ruin you.. but do try to dry it out in the sun the next morning. Never dry a sleeping bag or shoes in a fire.. I've seen too many of both destroyed and being barefoot in the woods without a sleeping bag is not good