Lightweight ground dweller moving over to hammocks...

[Dochartaigh]

Hello all, new guy here. Sat in my friends ENO hammock he brought along camping the other week and nearly fell asleep! (ok, the several beers may have helped with that, but it was still very comfy

So after never being comfortable sleeping on the ground while camping, I started to do a ton of research on hammock camping and bought my first setup (still in transit to me). Of course I went completely overboard like I normally do, but hope I made some good choices. Please let me know what you think of my setup:

-WarBonnet Blackbird XLC with whoopies (and I’m going to girth hitch the whoopie to the loop on the tree strap, and use a Dutch Clip to attach the tree strap to itself)

-WarBonnet SuperFly (wanted a tarp where I can close the ends completely for the same rain/wind protection I get in my tent).

-KAQ Jarbidge River 3/4?-length 25º underquilt, and added a partial length foot pad to insulate my legs.

-I’ll be using my regular 15º down sleeping bag as an overquilt of sorts.



I’m a big guy so I needed a tent that would hold me (290lbs), be roomy, and give complete protection from the elements like my tent does (i.e. no mini-tarps which leave the sides completely open for the rain to blow in).

I do still have one question nobody seems to be able to answer: everybody I’ve talked to, or read articles from, seems to say a hammock is lighter than a comparable tent setup, but I’m finding that to be completely false, and in a big way.

I know I added some extra weight with picking a larger hammock (both in size and weight capacity), and the Jarbidge under quilt isn’t the lightest, but I’m nearly at DOUBLE the weight of my tent setup. Not counting sleeping bag and camp pillow (which I’ll use on both setups), I’m at 80 ounces for the hammock setup, and 47 for my tent setup (that’s for the tent with rainfly, footprint, poles, stakes, and sleeping pad). That’s a HUGE difference – the hammock weighs 170% of my tent setup.

…even if I weighed less than 200 pounds and went with the regular Blackbird (not XLC model), and got a $300 1-pound down under quilt, the hammock setup would still weigh 30% more than the tent. Was I misinformed?

[ringtail-THFKAfood]

Going from a traditional gear tent to a lightweight hammock you will save weight. But I carry about a pound extra to sleep in a hammock. About a pound and a half extra to be able to go to the ground as well as hang.

[DanglingModifier]

It sounds like you were misinformed, and therefore have unrealistic expectations. The weights can be pretty similar between the two setups if you are careful in your product selection, but at best they are roughly competitive. Anyone lauding a major weight savings with a hammock setup is comparing it versus average tent setups, not ultralight ones.

Therein lies the rub: you're comparing apples and oranges.

You've got a very light 3-season tent setup. Under 3 pounds for tent, fly, footprint, poles, stakes, and pad is pretty light. In order to get there you must have made some serious compromises on comfort and/or spent a lot for ultralight gear. The fact that you're not comfortable on the ground probably means your pad is light/thin, not full length, or both. Out of curiosity how cold can you go with your current tenting pad? Presumably to be truly comfortable on the ground under any weather conditions you'd need a much more significant pad.

The hammock stuff you bought can stretch into 4-seasons. The SF tarp is very roomy, and you pay a minor weight penalty for that. The KAQ UQ is a quality entry level quilt. As you noticed, you definitely pay a weight penalty for synthetic. A sleeping bag is overkill for a hammock. Moving to a TQ would shave some more weight off.

If you made the same compromises of weight vs comfort in your hammock gear that you have with your tent setup, and you invested similarly in it, the weights would be much closer. A DL XLC + SF with light suspension components, tie outs, and Ti stakes comes in around 3 pounds or so. If you sprung for a high end full length UQ you'd add a bit over a pound to that. If you changed to a TQ you'd likely shave off a half pound or pound from your sleeping bag weight. If you leave the pad at home you're now roughly in the same ballpark as your tent setup. And you'll be comfortable... and you might be able to stretch it to 3+ seasons...

Granted you lose some flexibility of going to ground in that scenario, but you could always skip the UQ and use a lighter (and less comfortable) CCF pad beneath you as a compromise. If you want max comfort plus max flexibility, you'll pay a weight penalty for that.

Hope that helps set more realistic expectations.

EDIT: Ringtail beat me to the punch and said it far more efficiently than I did.

[mrmike65]

Hammock gear varies as much as ground gear. Ground gear can vary from 4lbs just for a tent to 10 oz. for a tarp. The search for an ultralight hammock kit is still being pursued, with varying degrees of success. Camping in a hammock has the added aspect of needing to provide protection from below, whereas with ground camping, you have the ground to work with. Getting to lightweight weights in a hammock requires either spending a LOT of money or going DIY. Most hammockers agree that the comfort level attained in a hammock far outweighs any additional weight over a ground kit. There is such a variety if gear and gear tactics, that building a kit that works for you becomes a personal journey. Best bet us to try what you've purchased and change out gear you're not happy with. You shouldn't have any problem with selling unwanted gear on the forum - it happens all the time Oh, and be sure to keep reading threads on the forum, because people are coming up with new stuff occasionally, but there probably isn't any thing related to hammocks and hammock camping that hasn't already been discussed here. Best of luck and keep on hangin'!

[hodad]

Being in PA you might consider a full length UQ vs the 3/4

[Dochartaigh]

Thank you for the welcomes.

Anyone lauding a major weight savings with a hammock setup is comparing it versus average tent setups, not ultralight ones.

That’s what I thought too - although you would think when people are bragging about how light their hammock setup is (i.e. they value all their gear being lightweight), that similarly their tent would be of the lightweight variety too.

Under 3 pounds for tent, fly, footprint, poles, stakes, and pad is pretty light. In order to get there you must have made some serious compromises on comfort and/or spent a lot for ultralight gear. The fact that you're not comfortable on the ground probably means your pad is light/thin, not full length, or both. Out of curiosity how cold can you go with your current tenting pad? Presumably to be truly comfortable on the ground under any weather conditions you'd need a much more significant pad.

For my current tent setup, I have a TarpTent Moment at 32.4 ounces / 2.03 pounds.

Sleeping pad is a Therma-Rest NeoAir xLite, FULL-length, at 14.8 ounces. It's 2.5" thick (so it's supposed to be relatively comfortable being that thick), has internal baffles to distribute weight, and has a R-value of 3.2 (so fairly neutral down to around/right below freezing if my memory serves).

My sleeping bag is a Montbell UltraLight Super Spiral Down Hugger #1 15° bag. I can definitely shave some weight here (weighs 2.25 pounds) with an overquilt, but I wasn't adding the sleeping bag (or pillow/sheet) to the weight comparison of the hammock vs. tent.

I only do 3-season camping so below 40º would be pretty rare. I've tried everything from super-thick closed cell foam weighing 5+ pounds when car camping, to the full-size (home type) queen size air mattresses (again, for car camping), and I'm just never comfortable sleeping on anything other than a bed. I think it's because none of the air mattresses/pads stretch when you're on them, and when using foam I'm a little too heavy and compress it too much so my hips and whatnot hit the hard ground below. Really hoping I’ll like hammock camping, and get a good nights sleep (which will make the extra weight, cost, and bulk in my pack totally worth it).

Being in PA you might consider a full length UQ vs the 3/4

I'm worried about that myself. Arrowhead/Kick *** Quilts swears the little 1/8" foam pad (weighing 1 ounce) insulates the footbox so you can be comfy down to 25º with their Jarbidge 3/4 length quilt. I'll just have to see it for myself before I believe it.

[MAD777]

I agree with the above posters that both ground setups and hammock setups can vary widely in weight and bulk. But I think they both weigh pretty close to the same assuming that the buyer is diligent about seeking the lightest solution for both. Or you could turn that around and say that both a luxury ground setup weighs about what a luxury aerial setup weighs.

I've settled on about 60 Oz (3-3/4 pounds) including a large hammock with suspension, fully enclosed bugnet, top and under quilts, pillow, sit pad (under feet), large tarp with doors and, 6 beefy stakes.

I came to hammocks from Henry Shires' TarpTents, so you can see I've always been weight conscious.

BTW, you have pick out really nice set of gear!

[egrant5329]

I have enjoyed playing with hammocks, but I am with you on the weight issue. For hiking the Long Trail and the AT, I always try to use the shelters so I don't have wet gear to deal with or extra stuff to put away. I carry a tent just incase the shelter is full. I use a lunar solo, which is plain ole nysil and not fancy Cuben fiber. It weighs in at ~23 oz and works great. I don't think you can get a full hammock setup with bug net and decent coverage tarp for less weight or less bulk. My bridge is light, but bulky due to the spreader bars. Add in my tarp and it's heavier then my tent.

I do like being able to hang in places that you can't pitch a tent comfortably and it is nice to stand up under the tarp. For light and fast it's hard to beat the lunar solo.

[DanglingModifier]

I did notice you weren't bringing the sleeping bag into play with your weight comparisons. The point I was trying to make was while your shelter system weight might go up some with the hammock setup, your weight of your sleep system can go down to help compensate for it. Once you factor that in and get comparably lightweight hammock stuff your pack weights will be closer to how they were with your tent setup. Less? Probably not.

I had the same problem sleeping on the ground that you do. I toss and turn all night regardless of what I'm sleeping on.

[SwinginIt]

I believe there's an article over at theultimatehang.com that discusses this subject. Either that or there's a thread here somewhere about it. I know for me there was a weight savings. I went from a 3lb Big Agnes tent to about 1.5lbs for hammock and tarp (with doors). Less than that if I bring my small a-sym tarp. Unless you were a tarp person on the ground, it is possible to save weight, but it's not a guarantee, just depends on what route you go with your hammock set up. What you gain in comfort makes up for any gains in weight.