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  1. #11
    New Member Custom Splice's Avatar
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    What about wrapping the AmSteel in a few feet of webbing, as a Chafe Guard?
    This will guard the tree and the rope.

  2. #12
    Frawg's Avatar
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    Gedanken Experiments

    I haven't tried any of this, but had a brain burp while waking up with my coffee...

    Tree damage would be caused by stress normal to the surface of the trunk, or by strain tangential to that surface. Horizontal strain would be an issue only during setup because the horizontal shear forces would be balanced, once the setup has stabilized. Vertical strain may be an issue because without a frictional reaction force from the tree a hugger would slide to the ground. (Who was writing recently about wet mossy trees in GSMNP?)

    The main point of huggers, though, would seem to be to mitigate the compressive force that gets applied normal to the trunk. More accurately, the objective is to keep the normal pressure (psi, N/m^2) below some (probably tree dependent) threshold.

    Straps have been an obvious way to distribute the applied force in a way that decreases the maximum point pressure. Rope & sticks are another way.

    Couple of thoughts --

    • applied normal pressure will be greatest diametrically opposite the attachment point, i.e., 'behind' the tree, and will decrease as you follow the hugger around the tree toward the attachment point, becoming zero past the point where the hugger last makes contact with the tree. Implication? More sticks toward the back side of the tree is better.


    • it would probably help to use larger sticks and split them, placing the flat part against the tree trunk. This will lower the local psi (N/m^2) at the point of contact with the trunk. As a side benefit this would increase the friction between the sticks and the trunk and, perhaps, keep the sticks from falling out so readily.

    $.02

    Late thought -- how about looking for any dead bark laying around? use it in place of sticks.
    - Frawg

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  3. #13
    Frawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Custom Splice View Post
    What about wrapping the AmSteel in a few feet of webbing, as a Chafe Guard?
    This will guard the tree and the rope.
    That idea was posed and discussed in the initial UCR thread. I think the conclusion was that it wouldn't help enough to be worthwhile.
    - Frawg

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  4. #14
    Senior Member angrysparrow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frawg View Post
    Late thought -- how about looking for any dead bark laying around? use it in place of sticks.
    I've tried that, and mostly it just splinters and falls apart under load.

    Also, in many cases bark that is lying on the ground becomes soft very quickly.
    I think that when the lies are all told and forgot the truth will be there yet. It dont move about from place to place and it dont change from time to time. You cant corrupt it any more than you can salt salt. - Cormac McCarthy

  5. #15
    Frawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by angrysparrow View Post
    I've tried that, and mostly it just splinters and falls apart under load.

    Also, in many cases bark that is lying on the ground becomes soft very quickly.
    Ah... <zips lips...>

    ... going back for more coffee.
    - Frawg

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  6. #16
    Senior Member Ramblinrev's Avatar
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    I think all this is very interesting but I do have a question unrelated to the physics of it all. How does this impact the motivation to demonstrate proper hanging technique to the non-hanging world? I understand the solo stealth application of this but to quote agent "K" from MIB "A person is smart... people are dumb." A quick glance at the webbing around the tree it is obvious we have changed the paradigm. A quick glance at ropes around the tree and how likely are people to see the sticks under the rope?

    I'm not trying to dis the concept. I think it's cool. But I also think we need to not "soil our own bed" if you understand my concern.
    I may be slow... But I sure am gimpy.

    "Bless you child, when you set out to thread a needle don't hold the thread still and fetch the needle up to it; hold the needle still and poke the thread at it; that's the way a woman most always does, but a man always does t'other way."
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  7. #17
    Frawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ramblinrev View Post
    ...I'm not trying to dis the concept. I think it's cool. But I also think we need to not "soil our own bed" if you understand my concern.
    A valid concern up to a point, IMHO. Generalizing the concern, though, isn't that the essence of 'political correctness'? (I don't mean that disparagingly, and hope that wasn't tossing red meat to the hounds!! )

    Reminds me of something Ben Franklin wrote in his biography when he was starting out on his own -- it was important to be industrious but more important to be seen to be industrious, to the point that he publicly did unnecessary things in order to exhibit his industriousness. "Perception is reality", "Sincerity is everything -- once you can fake that, the rest is easy", etc., etc...

    Well it's important to do right, and what that is is certainly open to discussion.

    So, how important is it to be seen to do right?

    IMHO, If you are doing right you are never soiling your own bed. An ignorant soul may think you are soiling yours (or, perhaps more likely, his!), but that ignorance is curable. The stupid or prejudiced will never understand or believe you. How far should one go to accommodate stupidity and prejudice? I probably wouldn't go very far unless there's a lot of them showing up in the night with torches and pitchforks...

    $.02, IMHO, etc, etc.
    - Frawg

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  8. #18
    Senior Member Ramblinrev's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frawg View Post
    Generalizing the concern, though, isn't that the essence of 'political correctness'? (I don't mean that disparagingly, and hope that wasn't tossing red meat to the hounds!! )
    I'll let that stand as is because you can not possibly know my attitude toward political correctness.

    Please do not take my statement as a mandate for behavior. It was no such thing. It was question for those who want to contemplate the question. In my own case, I am not likely to adopt the practice for a couple of reasons. One being I just hate having to look around for stuff to complete my set up. That's one of the reasons I am backing off my enthusiasm for wood stoves. So with the webbing I can just throw my bed up and be done with it.

    My question was more aimed at context than content. It seems to me that going into a public campsite that has no understanding of the process of hanging a hammock and _appearing_ to wrap a rope around the tree is not in our best interests. Those who stealth camp in the backcountry... knock yourself out. But being "seen" is important depending on the context.
    I may be slow... But I sure am gimpy.

    "Bless you child, when you set out to thread a needle don't hold the thread still and fetch the needle up to it; hold the needle still and poke the thread at it; that's the way a woman most always does, but a man always does t'other way."
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  9. #19
    Frawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ramblinrev View Post
    I'll let that stand as is because you can not possibly know my attitude toward political correctness.
    My apologies, Rev, if that came across as directed at you. It was most certainly not. It was an attempt to recognize that PC discussions tend to take on a certain frenzy, something I wanted to avoid.
    - Frawg

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  10. #20
    Senior Member Ramblinrev's Avatar
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    As far as I am concerned.. it's all good.
    I may be slow... But I sure am gimpy.

    "Bless you child, when you set out to thread a needle don't hold the thread still and fetch the needle up to it; hold the needle still and poke the thread at it; that's the way a woman most always does, but a man always does t'other way."
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