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  1. #1
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    Simple questions - cannot find answers. Asking the masters

    Morning all!

    Relatively new convert and I thank you all for your expertise here. This is one of the best forums I've ever been on. I've just purchased a WBBB and am awaiting delivery (Brandon, hurry up already!)

    I've gotten a *lot* of my questions answered and learned a ton from you guys. I have a few questions that I'd like to ask that I cannot easily find the answers to. Some questions just don't lend themselves well to a search. For example, the question "why hang at 30 degrees?" Search for that and you get page after page of folks that are camping in cold weather ("degrees"). So, that being said, here goes:

    1 - Why hang at 30 degrees? It seems like, if you want to lie as flat as possible, you'd want the hammock pulled as taut as possible.

    2 - I have read that I would want to hang the feet side a bit higher than the head side. Why?


    I am looking at buying a TQ/UQ for the winter season here in Maryland. These are expensive and I'd like to ensure that I spend this money only once.

    3 - Why not always get a full-length UQ? Why ever get a 1/3 or 2/3 UQ? All the videos that I see have a shorter quilt, and a pad under the legs. Even in the Noobie videos, Shug has short quilt and what looks like a CCF pad under his legs/feet. Why not just get a full length UQ? He says that his CCF pad is "only about 4 ounces". Going to a full quilt wouldn't add that much weight and it would seem to simplify things. So why not? One argument is that he is going to pack the pad anyway (to sit on), but he has another CCF pad for sitting on anyway (the orange one). So I don't get it.

    4 - And with a UQ, why wouldn't you pull it up under your head? Everyone says, "bring it to the top of your shoulders"; why not bring it up to the top of your head?

    Thanks!
    Pete

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by paustin View Post
    Morning all!

    Relatively new convert and I thank you all for your expertise here. This is one of the best forums I've ever been on. I've just purchased a WBBB and am awaiting delivery (Brandon, hurry up already!)

    I've gotten a *lot* of my questions answered and learned a ton from you guys. I have a few questions that I'd like to ask that I cannot easily find the answers to. Some questions just don't lend themselves well to a search. For example, the question "why hang at 30 degrees?" Search for that and you get page after page of folks that are camping in cold weather ("degrees"). So, that being said, here goes:

    1 - Why hang at 30 degrees? It seems like, if you want to lie as flat as possible, you'd want the hammock pulled as taut as possible.
    Hanging the hammock as taut as possible basically turns it into a rope. It becomes difficult to spread it out to its full width. The 30* guideline allows the hammock to sag so that you can lay in it diagonally to get a proper lay.

    2 - I have read that I would want to hang the feet side a bit higher than the head side. Why?
    Your torso weighs more than your feet. If your head end is higher, your body will tend to slide "downhill" while sleeping. Hanging the foot end higher prevents this.


    I am looking at buying a TQ/UQ for the winter season here in Maryland. These are expensive and I'd like to ensure that I spend this money only once.

    3 - Why not always get a full-length UQ? Why ever get a 1/3 or 2/3 UQ? All the videos that I see have a shorter quilt, and a pad under the legs. Even in the Noobie videos, Shug has short quilt and what looks like a CCF pad under his legs/feet. Why not just get a full length UQ? He says that his CCF pad is "only about 4 ounces". Going to a full quilt wouldn't add that much weight and it would seem to simplify things. So why not? One argument is that he is going to pack the pad anyway (to sit on), but he has another CCF pad for sitting on anyway (the orange one). So I don't get it.
    Weight is the primary factor, and bulk in the pack is second, and cost may be a third. If none of these concern you, a full length UQ makes sense

    4 - And with a UQ, why wouldn't you pull it up under your head? Everyone says, "bring it to the top of your shoulders"; why not bring it up to the top of your head?
    If you meant to ask this about a TQ instead of a UQ, its to prevent condensation from your breath from collecting in your quilt. This will increase the weight and reduce the effectiveness of your quilt, especially on long trips. Its of larger concern with down quilts than synthetics as it takes longer to dry down.

    Thanks!
    Pete

  3. #3
    Senior Member Osulagh's Avatar
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    Not an expert, but I can answer these.

    #1 and 2 are up to you and your comfort level. 30 degrees is the general rule of thumb and a lot of people do a smaller or larger angle. Start at 30, adjust for your comfort. And you're never going to lay perfectly flat in a hammock, but you do want to be somewhat flat--in gathered/loose hammocks, laying at an angle helps this. With the feet above head, it can keep you from falling out the hammock as the hammock wants to roll you in different directions depending on your posture and positioning. Going feet higher means you roll into the majority of the hammock, and not from it.

    #3, for weight and space saving. Many people backpack with hammocks, so shaving off the 3-10oz for half a quilt when you don't need the other half is great, while also it has a smaller pack size. I'm planning a half UQ for summer use, but if I was going winter I'd do a full.

    #4, who says you can't? It's hard to say that you don't need insulation under your head, because in winter you'll need something, but what you want to keep warm most of all is your torso and legs. The head doesn't radiate much heat and there's a lot of space around it that's unutilized, so it might be a waste. At most, a pillow is provide a lot of insulation around the head, and you can top that off with some kind of head cap and wrap your head with your TQ. Read sargevining's post and I'm now confused on if you meant TQ or UQ as well. I'm talking UQ.

    About the, TQ/UQ is expensive, you don't have to buy them. You can make due with a cheapy sleeping bag and sleeping pad. Or, you can DIY--a $700 TQ and UQ set can cost you $150-250 in materials, less for less quality.

  4. #4
    all secure in sector 7 Shug's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paustin View Post
    Morning all!

    Relatively new convert and I thank you all for your expertise here. This is one of the best forums I've ever been on. I've just purchased a WBBB and am awaiting delivery (Brandon, hurry up already!)

    I've gotten a *lot* of my questions answered and learned a ton from you guys. I have a few questions that I'd like to ask that I cannot easily find the answers to. Some questions just don't lend themselves well to a search. For example, the question "why hang at 30 degrees?" Search for that and you get page after page of folks that are camping in cold weather ("degrees"). So, that being said, here goes:

    1 - Why hang at 30 degrees? It seems like, if you want to lie as flat as possible, you'd want the hammock pulled as taut as possible.

    2 - I have read that I would want to hang the feet side a bit higher than the head side. Why?


    I am looking at buying a TQ/UQ for the winter season here in Maryland. These are expensive and I'd like to ensure that I spend this money only once.

    3 - Why not always get a full-length UQ? Why ever get a 1/3 or 2/3 UQ? All the videos that I see have a shorter quilt, and a pad under the legs. Even in the Noobie videos, Shug has short quilt and what looks like a CCF pad under his legs/feet. Why not just get a full length UQ? He says that his CCF pad is "only about 4 ounces". Going to a full quilt wouldn't add that much weight and it would seem to simplify things. So why not? One argument is that he is going to pack the pad anyway (to sit on), but he has another CCF pad for sitting on anyway (the orange one). So I don't get it.

    4 - And with a UQ, why wouldn't you pull it up under your head? Everyone says, "bring it to the top of your shoulders"; why not bring it up to the top of your head?

    Thanks!
    Pete
    *Well Pete the 30% is a starting point. The straight out to the tree suspension has a ton of stress on it and pulls the hammock tight. Though there are a few who do lke it that way most of us like the 30% or so as we get better sag in the hammock and can get a better diagonal lay.
    * Feet higher keeps your mass of head and shoulder where it should be. Many new hammockers complain of sliding down toward the foot end. The 6 to 12 inches foot high hang helps with that and also helps alleviate the calf ridge that can happen in gathered end hammocks. Sag helps with that as well...http://www.tothewoods.net/HomemadeHammock4.html

    *The partail UQ takes up less space in the pack and in my opinion is a bit easier to dail in. I carry a sit pad anyways so it becomes a dual use item. Just an option. There are no set rules to any of this. If you hammock enough you will fall into your own preferred style.

    * Reckon you could get one long enough to do that. I normally have a pillow or something under my head so really it is just extra. Longer UQ = more down= more $$ spent.

    Shug
    Whooooo Buddy)))) All Secure in Sector Seven

  5. #5
    mbiraman's Avatar
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    +1 on what Sarge said
    " The mind creates the abyss, the heart crosses it."

    “The measure of your life will not be in what you accumulate, but in what you give away.” ~Wayne Dyer

    www.birchsidecustomwoodwork.com

  6. #6
    Senior Member GoatHanger's Avatar
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    In addition to what sargevining said, another reason to hang at 30 degrees is at that angle, the weight to load ratio is 1:1. If you weigh 200#, there will be 200# of lateral force on the trees, and your gear. That ratio is multiplied the more shallow of an angle you use.

    Inversely, the steeper the angle, less force is applied laterally. Hanging at a 40 degree angle would give you 173.2 lbs of shear force.
    Like thrash metal? Check out my nephew's band, Deathwatch. He's an amazing drummer... https://soundcloud.com/user-660860695

  7. #7
    silentorpheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paustin View Post
    Morning all!

    Relatively new convert and I thank you all for your expertise here. This is one of the best forums I've ever been on. I've just purchased a WBBB and am awaiting delivery (Brandon, hurry up already!)

    I've gotten a *lot* of my questions answered and learned a ton from you guys. I have a few questions that I'd like to ask that I cannot easily find the answers to. Some questions just don't lend themselves well to a search. For example, the question "why hang at 30 degrees?" Search for that and you get page after page of folks that are camping in cold weather ("degrees"). So, that being said, here goes:

    1 - Why hang at 30 degrees? It seems like, if you want to lie as flat as possible, you'd want the hammock pulled as taut as possible.

    2 - I have read that I would want to hang the feet side a bit higher than the head side. Why?


    I am looking at buying a TQ/UQ for the winter season here in Maryland. These are expensive and I'd like to ensure that I spend this money only once.

    3 - Why not always get a full-length UQ? Why ever get a 1/3 or 2/3 UQ? All the videos that I see have a shorter quilt, and a pad under the legs. Even in the Noobie videos, Shug has short quilt and what looks like a CCF pad under his legs/feet. Why not just get a full length UQ? He says that his CCF pad is "only about 4 ounces". Going to a full quilt wouldn't add that much weight and it would seem to simplify things. So why not? One argument is that he is going to pack the pad anyway (to sit on), but he has another CCF pad for sitting on anyway (the orange one). So I don't get it.

    4 - And with a UQ, why wouldn't you pull it up under your head? Everyone says, "bring it to the top of your shoulders"; why not bring it up to the top of your head?

    Thanks!
    Pete
    1.) Sarge is correct. Also a factor is that the steeper the angle, the more direct force that is put on the suspension and the tree. So the closer you get to a 0˚ angle, the more strain that is put on your whoopies or straps or whatever - thus effectively reducing the safety margins of those items. But mainly it's a comfort thing, like Sarge posted.

    2.) What Sarge said. Plus often you'll find that it also helps to eliminate some calf ridge issues in shorter hammocks.

    3.) It's about weight and bulk savings. If you car camp, or don't mind carrying weight and have a huge pack, by all means, go ahead and always use a full length. But in general your legs are not as sensitive to cold temps as your core (torso) is. Often in cool but not cold temps, you don't NEED to have the pad under your legs - a decently rated UQ that covers from neck to knees is more than enough. In that case the extra weight and bulk of the full length would be unnecessary. Since most people would carry some sort of pad for either sitting or as a partial frame if using a frameless pack, then it is available to supplement if needed. Carrying both the full length quilt and the pad (if you'd take it anyway) is redundant, and a large part of lightening your pack is identifying and eliminating redundancies.

    If you know for a fact that you're going to be using your quilts for winter camping, then you might want to consider full length - much of the decision is a personal choice, based on your needs and camping style. The partial UQ was created for just that reason - people made the personal choice to try and cut weight by only insulating the parts that weren't easily covered by other items in their regular kit.

    4.) Similar to what I said in #3, your head doesn't get cold the same way as your core. Plus many people either bring a small pillow, or a hat (wool or down). So if your head is cold, it's easy to insulate it with what you have - even tucking your jacket or some spare clothes will do the trick, and will also support your neck a little if needed. Again - it's about eliminating redundant items.

    Welcome to the forums, and good luck!

  8. #8
    Suede's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paustin View Post
    4 - And with a UQ, why wouldn't you pull it up under your head? Everyone says, "bring it to the top of your shoulders"; why not bring it up to the top of your head?
    Hi paustin! Welcome to the forum!

    Just to expand on this one a bit, I personally like it up past my shoulders and usually use either a full length or a "short" one i.e. 66-69" (note I am 5'6"). The thinking is that you will have something to put your head on that will keep your head warm i.e. I use a down pillow or you can use a down jacket, etc. It's mostly about saving weight by not insulating where it may be redundant. People using torso or 2/3 lengths use their sit pads as double usage, insulating their feet, making for less pack weight.
    John aka Suede

  9. #9
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    CRAP are you guys fast! Thank you all.

    Follow ups:

    1. 30 degrees: Allows for hammock spread. Reduces lateral tension. Got it, thanks.
    2. Feet side higher: Prevent buttock-ial slippage. Got it.
    3. Full-length UQ: Weight, size and preference. I hear you, but I'm thinking that I disagree. Not absolutely positive that I disagree yet, but I'm thinking. I hit WB and looked at the Lynx 3-season. Torso length 12.8oz and the full length is 17.5oz - less than 4.5oz more. My cellphone weighs in at 8 oz. So, for a little more than half the weight of my cell phone (and another $40), I can have head-to-toe coverage. If I went with the full winter, we are still only looking at a 5.5 increase. I'd love to hear any other arguments against before I give Brandon that much money (though I am certain that it is well-deserved).
    4. Pull the UQ up under your head?: Pillow. <smacks head> Duh. Of course. And I get the part about head, arms and legs being peripheral with different insulating needs. Thanks.

    You folks rock.

    Thanks!

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by paustin View Post
    3. Full-length UQ: Weight, size and preference. I hear you, but I'm thinking that I disagree. Not absolutely positive that I disagree yet, but I'm thinking. I hit WB and looked at the Lynx 3-season. Torso length 12.8oz and the full length is 17.5oz - less than 4.5oz more. My cellphone weighs in at 8 oz. So, for a little more than half the weight of my cell phone (and another $40), I can have head-to-toe coverage. If I went with the full winter, we are still only looking at a 5.5 increase. I'd love to hear any other arguments against before I give Brandon that much money (though I am certain that it is well-deserved).
    It's a personal choice. As has been said, cost, weight, bulk and comfort are prioritized differently for everyone, so pick what works for you. Serious hangers often end up with multiple options to choose from.

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