On Hammocks and Patents.

[ac33]

this book is from 1904.this ridgeline definately affects the comfort curve. loosen the rope and the hammock will sag more tighten it more and it will sag less.

[TeeDee]

this book is from 1904.this ridgeline definately affects the comfort curve. loosen the rope and the hammock will sag more tighten it more and it will sag less.

Better, but I don't buy it as a "structural" ridgeline as used today. Much closer to the tarp ridgeline. Also, the sag affected by that ridgeline is not the sag as generally defined here:

Sag - Sag describes how tightly the hammock is strung between the trees. If the hammock is very loose between the trees and adopts a "U" shape, it has a lot of sag. This makes it easier to lay on the diagonal. If the hammock is strung tightly, laying on the diagonal will be more difficult and may cause shoulder squeeze.

Hennessy hammocks have integral ridgelines that set the amount of sag for the hammock, and the sag doesn't change no matter how tightly you hang it. See the "ridgeline" entry for more details.

Note the second paragraph in the definition, which can be viewed

here

If you will note in the definition, sag is related as affecting the end-to-end shape and hence is closely related to comfort laying of laying on the diagonal.

In the illustration you have provided, it is not obvious, to me at least, how the ridgeline taughtness will affect end-to-end or even side-to-side sag. Loosen that ridgeline and it appears to me that the whole thing will tend to collapse.

Now, besides showing an illustration, how do you propose that the illustration is similar, identical to or somewhat like the "structural" ridgeline commonly used and as patented by Hennessy? Please describe the similar or identical elements and function, the effects attendant upon use and how it can be used in a current day hammock. (Note: if you seriously intend to challenge the patent, expect to have to answer much tougher questions).

The ridgeline for which you have shown an illustration is a lot more similar to the ridgeline used by JRB for their new hammock than the Hennessy ridgeline. I think that JRB would argue that their ridgeline is not a structural ridgeline as patented and used by Hennessy. Also, note that the "hammock" illustrated shows more similarity to the JRB hammock than any other hammock on the market of which I am familiar. It is nothing at all like any of the Hennessy hammocks.

But if you want, you can take it and an argument to the PTO and see if they agree with you. If they agree that that is the same implementation as what Hennessy has patented, then maybe you can get the patent revoked. But expect a strong challenge to your argument by Hennessy, which you must be prepared to meet or defeat. IF you are successful, then you can get another maker to make a hammock for you with a structural ridgeline as made by Hennessy.

Care to try?

[slowhike]

all i can say is to repeat the same thing i said in an earlier post...
"i understand the need to protect the idea that a person came up with & took to market, but tom uses a fixed structural ridge line not an adjustable ridge line like ed speer was using or an adjustable ridge line made of webbing like the jacks use on there new hammock.
just because he put down the money for a patent on his ridge line, doesn't make it right for him to keep anyone else from using a ridge line.
i believe tom is taking the ridge line thing way to far.
and tom doesn't provide the variations in snake skins that every one needs. some people need bigger snake skins that slide over an under quilt & possibly a top quilt. they may need longer skins. some people are experimenting w/ the snake skin made of bug net. but tom doesn't provide those so anyone that doesn't have the DIY skills or hasn't even seen those options (because they haven't found this site) never know about those options.
BTW... at trail days 2005, i told tom about my idea of the bug net snake skins. he was very interested & asked me to give a brief description of that idea along w/ my name on his tape recorder. so i did.
a lot of people like the way the hh lays but don't like the permanent bug net & bottom entry. it would be great if tom were willing to hear the hammocker's that would like to see a model that had a net that could be removed & even replaced w/ dwr treated 1.1 like headchange's great design. but i have serious doubts... mater of fact i'd hate to think the way tom would rake headchange (& others) over the coals for messing w/ his design.
tom is not just protecting his ideas & designs, but he is trying to hold on to a larger part of the hammock market that he owns. ...tim"

[Ewker]

That's just being argumentative.

Any spreading of potentially false information is a clear disservice. While this forum may be a 'sewing circle' type of atmosphere, this topic clearly has implications for a number of the parties involved. In a discussion with tangible implications to someone, it is imperative that any emotionally charged opinions or speculation be backed up by fact or they just add complication to an already tedious issue.

so that is your opinion or are you being argumentative

[angrysparrow]

so that is your opinion or are you being argumentative

My statement was actually a fact learned from experience. But if you disagree, you can elighten us all about why spreading possibly untrue information that defames others and affects the livelihood of our niche vendors helps the community at large.

You seem to be defending the right to publicly bash TH of HH, despite providing absolutely no proof that his claims aren't valid. If you have information that his patents are invalid, then do present it. Otherwise, all the repeating of opinions and comments about the morality of TH's assertions are for naught. The entire counter-argument seems to be fueled only by emotion and judgement, not demonstrable fact.

I still think this thread should be locked until someone can offer either proof for the counter argument, or information about new developments to the situation. I've said my peace about the issue, and will argue no more about the issue.

[Ewker]

who said anything has been untrue..that came from your mouth..no one else has said anything but their opinion..typ lawyer talk from you

[Just Jeff]

This has been the most negative thread we've had on HF.

As I said before, I don't want to close it because some good information can still come out. Arguing the same things that have already been argued, or poking one-liners at others w/o providing anything substantial to the discussion, isn't helpful.

I understand that defining the line between justifiable criticism and unhelpful negativity is impossible to define in a way that everyone will agree. But for the sake of our community here, please debate respectfully, w/o namecalling or finger-pointing. Get the emotion out of it. If you have a fact to add, or an expert opinion (i.e. you're a patent lawyer or a manufacturer), then please post it. Otherwise, please limit your participation in this thread so we can put some of the unhelpful negativity to rest.

[Nest]

Well, can anyone say for sure if DIY structural ridgelines would be illegal. That is assuming that Hennessey's patent on structural ridgelines will hold. I was thinking that if DIY is not illegal, then there is a way for warbonnet, jacks r better, speer, and the others can get around the patent. THey can make their regular hammocks like they have been, but build them with attachment points in the ends so the buyer can DIY their own structural ridgeline. Something like a line that is in the end knots that has a loop on both sides. One side is where the hammock attached to the support lines. The other loop faces the inside of the hammock where you would use a biner on each end, or tie a line of your desired length for a ridgeline. If you chose to not have a ridgeline, you would just have to attach the support line to the outside loop, and pull the inside loop over the top of the knot and attach both. That way the line with the two loops doesn't pull through the knot. I know that is a very complicated description for something that is very simple in my head, but hopefully someone understood it.

[Frolicking Dino]

Careful here FD - are you sure it was a structural ridgeline?? A picture with a ridgeline does not make it a structural ridgeline.

What makes it a structural ridgeline? (please be specific as I'm somewhat new to hammocking)

[NCPatrick]

I was reading the documentation that came with my HH Explorer Deluxe. The docs mention 3 patents. One patent is for an integral ridgeline, (no mention of structural there, maybe the official patent mentions structural? Anyone want to check?). Also a patent for the bottom entry, and I think also for the way it closes after you when you get in, I'll check that one again. That's all it says about patents in the little booklet you get with the product. FWIW.