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  1. #1
    New Member Thijzzz's Avatar
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    Question HH mod - double structural ridge line. Opinions please.

    Hi all, I'm still mostly lurking and whenever I return from a trip I keep thinking up ideas to make my setup better.

    So here's an idea I came up with: I wanted to replace the original lines with about 1 ft of 5 mm prussik cord (load capacity 580 kg / 1280 pounds) and end in a cinch buckle. And work with webbing from there.

    I thought this version would give double strength and make it easier to tighten the knots evenly at the buckle.

    Pic 1: Overview

    Pic 2: Detail of wrapping with knot. The granny knot's there to hold the wrapping in lace. White mason's line is the internal ridge line.

    Pic 3: 1 prussik for the fly, 1 prussik for underblanket attachment.

    Pic 4: Detail of knots on buckle.

    Now here's the important question: If I tighten the buckle knots, will it hold? Or should I add a granny knot in each "leftover" end?

    Opinions please!

  2. #2
    GrizzlyAdams's Avatar
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    Hey Thijzzz,
    I think those buckle knots will be OK and not slip. But as a matter of practice, in a situation like this I'd put in a stopper knot. If you make it a figure-8 rather than an overhand (what you are calling a granny knot), then you'll be able to easily undo it if you want to change the main buckle knot for any reason.

    To make this figure-8, form the overhand loop to where you would slip the working end through the bight, but first twist that overhand loop around another 180 degrees and then slip in the working end.

    my $0.05

    Grizz

  3. #3
    Senior Member lenle01's Avatar
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    Thijzzz- Did this work?

  4. #4
    Ramblinrev's Avatar
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    I don't see why it wouldn't work. But the question I have is why do two lines for the suspension? I always have problems keeping the double lines at the same tension and length. That's just me. I don't see the advantage for two lines when there are other lines that would be suitable using only one length. I not being critical of the idea. Just wondering about the thinking that drove it.
    I may be slow... But I sure am gimpy.

    "Bless you child, when you set out to thread a needle don't hold the thread still and fetch the needle up to it; hold the needle still and poke the thread at it; that's the way a woman most always does, but a man always does t'other way."
    Mrs. Loftus to Huck Finn

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  5. #5
    Senior Member lenle01's Avatar
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    Ramblinrev- I think he was going for better organization of his UQ and tarp. I should have asked about that instead of "did it work". I could be completely wrong about that though. Hopefully he will reply.

  6. #6
    Ramblinrev's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lenle01 View Post
    Ramblinrev- I think he was going for better organization of his UQ and tarp. I should have asked about that instead of "did it work". I could be completely wrong about that though. Hopefully he will reply.
    Now I'm really lost. Those pics he posted look like hammock suspeneion pics to me. Interesting comment though. Guess we'll have to see what follows.
    I may be slow... But I sure am gimpy.

    "Bless you child, when you set out to thread a needle don't hold the thread still and fetch the needle up to it; hold the needle still and poke the thread at it; that's the way a woman most always does, but a man always does t'other way."
    Mrs. Loftus to Huck Finn

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  7. #7
    New Member Thijzzz's Avatar
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    Hey guys,

    I would have responded earlier, since I'm subscribed to thiss thread. Just never got any notification until today. (???)

    To answer your questions:
    I did this to be able to use buckles/rings in combination with longer 1 inch straps. I loathe the HH knot ;-)

    I chose a double line because I wanted a thinner line for easier knotting, and more loops around the end of the HH. But I had to compensate for strength by using a double line. 1 line is about 600 kg = 1200 pounds, so to be on the safe side I used doubles.

    Also: with the 2 lines I can put the prussik for the tarp on 1 line, and the prussik for my UQ on the other. Otherwise I would have had to make my ridgeline longer and I wanted it short. So Lenle01: you're partially right.

    I changed the end knot a bit: a ssquare knot to close off the prussik, and then 1 ovehand in the ends as stopper knots, tightenedd with pliers and partially melted together to make sure it won´t come undone. Worked fine. The only thing about cinch buckles: when your HH is under tension, it can be a hell of a job to undo the buckles....

    @RamblinRev: I have searched the forums on this, but HH combined with cinch buckles usually end up in double lines. Any links/pics on how to do it with 1 line?

    BTW: It was a precise job to get the tension right, but it worked.

    PS: Like the signature!
    Last edited by Thijzzz; 10-16-2009 at 14:12. Reason: Knot names were wrong, thanks RRev!

  8. #8
    Ramblinrev's Avatar
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    The double line serves a purpose unique to cinch buckles. I swapped out the stock suspension to ring buckles using the stock rope and just cut off the ends. But I have found the cinch buckle type attachment tends to skew on me using one line so I see the benefit there. The alternative is to tie a loop in the end of the line and do a multiple loop prussic on the cinch buckle to fill that attachment slot and prevent the skew slide.

    BTW.. Please do not ever use a "granny knot" for anything. My understand of the granny knot is a mis-tied square knot. It is an unstable knot that upsets and unties itself with abandon. Unlike the true Granny.. it can not be counted on for anything. Not even cookies and milk after school. The "overhand" knot you refer to is a useful knot for somethings. But check your usage of terms as it could get very confusing and potentially dangerous if people think a granny knot is a useful knot to tie.
    I may be slow... But I sure am gimpy.

    "Bless you child, when you set out to thread a needle don't hold the thread still and fetch the needle up to it; hold the needle still and poke the thread at it; that's the way a woman most always does, but a man always does t'other way."
    Mrs. Loftus to Huck Finn

    We Don't Sew... We Make Gear! video series

    Important thread injector guidelines especially for Newbies

    Bobbin Tension - A Personal Viewpoint

  9. #9
    New Member Thijzzz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ramblinrev View Post
    The double line serves a purpose unique to cinch buckles. ....................But I have found the cinch buckle type attachment tends to skew on me using one line so I see the benefit there. The alternative is to tie a loop in the end of the line and do a multiple loop prussic on the cinch buckle to fill that attachment slot and prevent the skew slide.
    Didn't mention it, but with a 1-line tryout they skewed on me too. Because you make a loop at the end, you have to make a multiple loop prussik to fill up the gap as you said. And it's very difficult not to twist the line too bad when making the prussik, AND get even tension on the 2 sides of the loop. And very hard to correct. So that was another reason.

    Thanks for the correction on knot terms! I googled them to check: I'd never use a granny knot, it always `unflips` and becomes a sliding mess.

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