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  1. #11
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    Good points.

    I agree that weight is kind of central here. Weight was the first reason I got attracted to hammock camping - I didn't know there were other ways than tent, pad and sleeping bag (heavy and cold for the weight IMO).
    And of course comfort is the biggest issue - carrying less is totally about comfort too for me, not performance or anything.

    The reason I brought this up is:
    Reading up on lots and lots of different hammocks setups, I think it's sometimes unclear whether the manufacturer/model in question is trying to be lightweight or not, and how hard it's trying. To what cost, et c.
    If a company describes a model as "lightweight and comfortable!" it could really mean anything. Lighter than a leather tent? More comfortable than sleeping on the ground?
    At least my brain is trying to categorize hammocks into "weight is a main issue" and "something else is the main issue", and sometimes I can't tell why people are choosing certain ways of doing things. Do they want less weight or more warmth or more space?

    I'm sure it becomes more obvious with personal experience, and I agree with people who think it might be tricky to separate the weight issue from the rest of the hammock experience.

  2. #12
    HappyCamper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cannibal View Post
    I just wouldn't want a bunch of threads that would not be moved in past, to be moved into that forum just because so much of the discussion involves weight.
    Quote Originally Posted by angrysparrow View Post
    So, while weight is indeed a central theme, if we had a dedicated sub-forum what would go in it that doesn't belong in another section already?
    I agree. I wouldn't want the moderators to move any threads into a lightweight forum from another forum. But I do think the lightweighters would take care of the forum themselves by posting something like . . .

    "Hey, I was reading through the 1,436 posts in the whoopie sling thread and someone posted about this ultralight weight cord called Helium Cord that I'm gonna use on my tarp. It's the lightest I've seen. Anyone else know of something like Helium Cord that doesn't cost $2 per foot?"

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  3. #13
    Senior Member Cannibal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gaidal View Post
    Do they want less weight or more warmth or more space?
    Yes.
    It will get easier over time, but the nature of the hammocker is summed up well by one word: modifications. There aren't many of us that haven't tweaked this or that for various reasons. It probably makes the manufacturers slightly crazy seeing people do that to their creations, but sure does make things fun.
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  4. #14
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    Hammock manufacturers are no different in their descriptions than tent manufacturers.. cottage industries excepted. How many times have you seen a 8# tent designated by the manufacterer as "suitable for backpacking." Watch steepandcheap.com if you haven't seen that. So I don't think the hammocking manufacturers are unique in that regard. Plus what is "lightweight" to you may be unusable or monstrously heavy to someone else. As far as other gear is concerned.. I know this has been brought up and the consensus seems to be that there are ample site which focus specially on the UL gear and it would be best to let them do what they do best while we concentrate on what we do best.
    I may be slow... But I sure am gimpy.

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  5. #15
    gargoyle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cannibal View Post
    Yes.
    It will get easier over time, but the nature of the hammocker is summed up well by one word: modifications. There aren't many of us that haven't tweaked this or that for various reasons. It probably makes the manufacturers slightly crazy seeing people do that to their creations, but sure does make things fun.
    I can definitely see the manufacturers being angry or crazy about the way we re-do their gear. They work hard at giving us safe and reliable products, only to have one of us completely change it over.
    But, to be fair, the car industry has been under the same problem for years. Take a perfectly fine auto and strip the paint, change the tires, rip out the interior and tweak the motor....I guess it's just human nature to fiddle with things.
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  6. #16
    Senior Member Cannibal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gargoyle View Post
    But, to be fair, the car industry has been under the same problem for years. Take a perfectly fine auto and strip the paint, change the tires, rip out the interior and tweak the motor....I guess it's just human nature to fiddle with things.
    Alas, what was once an art form has now become a matter of changing out a computer chip. And to think, I spent years of my life tweaking a carb or having a cam shaft 'massaged' to get more thump. Now, they just pull out some tweezers and go to work. Just doesn't seem as much fun, but I'm done with my whining thread drift.
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  7. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Mustardman View Post
    Hammocking can be made very lightweight, but the insulation systems are almost always going to add additional weight you simply wouldn't see in an ultralight ground setup.
    hmmm...

    ultralight ground setup: full length ccf w/tq?
    ultralight hammock setup: basically the same thing?

    full length ccf will be potentially uncomfortable in both cases, but is about as light as you can go. i'd say a tq for a hammock can defiantely be a few inches narrower (and shorter) than a ground tq, and also the pad straps could be left off, but the ccf for the hammocker might need to be a little wider in the shoulder area in cooler weather. i'd say total insulation weight should be pretty darn close.

  8. #18
    HappyCamper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mustardman
    Hammocking can be made very lightweight, but the insulation systems are almost always going to add additional weight you simply wouldn't see in an ultralight ground setup.
    Quote Originally Posted by warbonnetguy View Post
    hmmm...

    ultralight ground setup: full length ccf w/tq?
    ultralight hammock setup: basically the same thing?

    full length ccf will be potentially uncomfortable in both cases, but is about as light as you can go. i'd say a tq for a hammock can defiantely be a few inches narrower (and shorter) than a ground tq, and also the pad straps could be left off, but the ccf for the hammocker might need to be a little wider in the shoulder area in cooler weather. i'd say total insulation weight should be pretty darn close.

    If you are wondering what would go into an lightweight forum . . I guess something like this could be debated there. (I think I'm outnumbered and being ignored. )
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  9. #19
    Senior Member animalcontrol's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gaidal View Post
    The reason I brought this up is:
    Reading up on lots and lots of different hammocks setups, I think it's sometimes unclear whether the manufacturer/model in question is trying to be lightweight or not, and how hard it's trying. To what cost, et c.
    If a company describes a model as "lightweight and comfortable!" it could really mean anything. Lighter than a leather tent? More comfortable than sleeping on the ground?
    As you spend more time here, you'll start picking out the people who fit your scope. Or even just ask for gram weenies!
    Once you find them, ask away! Senior members here will most likely have evaluated nearly all of the lighter options and can guide you in the lighter direction.
    One member, mikeinfhaz, was talking about a sub-5lb base weight. That's good no matter the set-up!
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  10. #20
    sure, it's hard to just go by a description of something "lightweight and comfortable" for instance, but that's what specs are for: listed dimensions, features, weight. comfort is a hard thing know though without getting others opinions and it's still going to be different for different people.

    in my experience the majority of my customers are concerned more about comfort and features, and as long as the weight of those features is reasonable they're more than happy to accept them, and if someone wants a bare bones featureless hammock to bring the weight down as low as possible then that's an option too. if you're a SUL'er you may be out of luck though, ultralight hammock+suspension+tarp is still going to be heavier than a bivy sac or a tiny tarp. mikenfaz has done a 5# base weight with hammock and tarp though i believe.

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