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  1. #1
    BillyBob58's Avatar
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    Garlington Insulator to augment Super Shelter pad

    I just want to remind folks of something that worked super for me back in the day when I only used the SS. But I kind of forgot about it until recently. I never fully explored it's capabilities as I got side tracked into the Pea Pod and JRB MWUQ. Both of which work great, plus I was experimenting with non HH hammocks, so I kind of abandoned more research on the SS, even though I always thought it was a pretty good approach.

    But lately I have played around some more with the Garlington Insulator(GI). Of course, it is still too hot to experiment with it. None the less, it is obvious it has great potential for the HHSS, or really any sort of UC, or even down in a Pea Pod.

    The original GIs I experimented with consisted of a crinkled up, loosely folded space blanket "sealed" inside a garbage bag of various sizes. It adds very little weight or cost, maybe even zero if you rig it up from items you have with you any way.

    What is the main problem with insulation in the UC of a SS, other than potential condensation? It is the elastics in the SS UC, which tend to conpress the insulation, particularly if down is used, as it holds the insulation against your back. In some spots, it may compress it down to almost zero. The SS was one of the 1st "snug" type designs: it holds everything just lightly against your back. That is fine with the HH pad or things like fleece, it is not enough tension to compress them much. But if you go stuffing fluffy stuff down in the UC or on top of the pad, they tend to loose a lot of their loft.

    Why is the GI potentially great in a SS? First, the sealed bag is hard to compress. The light pressure caused by UC elastics will usually not cause any leak/compression. So, whatever you put in there to cause some loft ( a down jacket or vest or the original space blanket), whether 1/2" or 3", it will pretty much stay that way through the night. All though I think I remember that as the night grows colder, the air volume will shrink a bit.

    Second, depending on how much insulation, it is light enough not to cause any sag in the UC. For ex, with just the space blanket, there will be zero UC sag.

    Third, especially if using down, there is no concern with condensation for those that have issues with that despite using the space blanket on top of the pad, as everything is in a water proof bag.

    I think Cannibal once said he puts one of those x-large zip lock bags in his pack as a liner. Yesterday, I took some of the Climashield insulation from my WB Torso UQ and put it in first a large garbage bag and later in a x-large zip lock storage bag. This gave me some significant additional loft under the pad, snugged up firm against my back. It would be easier to use with a zip mod or net free HH, so that you could position it after getting in. Flexibility might be a concern, with the garbage bag seeming more flexible than the zip lock. But I think it will be flexible enought o help, if you don't have too much air in there.

    You might have to rig up something to keep it where you want it, though it has a tendency to sink to the lowest, and coldest, point.

    Any way, some of us HHSS users might want to experiment with this this winter. I remember a pretty good boost just using the space blanket in a garbage bag, and I think it might also work great with more substantial forms of insulation. Folks ( including me) have successfully used insulation in the UC without bothering with putting it in a bag, but that compression does have to be accounted for. As well as condensation.
    For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory that is to be revealed to us....that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now.
    Romans 8:18,21-22

  2. #2
    Knotty's Avatar
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    Interesting.

    How do you seal the large garbage bags and do you use more than one?
    Knotty
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  3. #3
    BillyBob58's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knotty View Post
    Interesting.

    How do you seal the large garbage bags and do you use more than one?
    You could use more than one, and I think I did once. But, one large bag should cover the major areas that need a boost.

    Twisting and then folding the garbage bag open end over several times and then wrapping tightly in a thick rubber band seems to get the job done. But this uses up a lot of bag and the more times you fold it over the more the bag gets smaller. So you might need to make up for this by starting with the largest leaf bag you can find, or at least pretty big. So that enough bag would be left over to cover your upper back to butt. But considering the phenomenon of CBS (cold butt syndrome) just having that area well covered might be enough to save the day- or night.

    Obviously none of this is a problem with the zip lock bags.

    http://www.hammockcamping.com/Garlin...GIversion2.htm

    Some GI experiments of using the GI by itself, as opposed to using it to beef up the SS pad/UC as I have been suggesting:
    http://www.hammockcamping.com/Garlin...GIoriginal.htm

    None of this does away with the need for the original space blanket on top of the HH pad. SBs discussed above are crinkled up inside the garbage bag. And don't forget the possibilities of leaves, even wet one if not too heavy, in the sealed up bags.
    For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory that is to be revealed to us....that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now.
    Romans 8:18,21-22

  4. #4
    BillyBob58's Avatar
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    Here are some pics to make the point- this is about 12 oz( way more than I have been discussing) of Climashield Combat stuffed carelessly inside a large zip bag. It looks to be around 22" wide by about a yard long. One question is will this type of bag(or any other) flex well enough to surround your entire back. I think it will depending on how much air is in there. Also, this is an old zip bag, and if I push on it hard the air slowly leaks. But, the only pressure on it in the SS would be whatever pressure the UC elastics supply. Which I don't think will be enough to cause a leak even in this old bag.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory that is to be revealed to us....that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now.
    Romans 8:18,21-22

  5. #5
    Knotty's Avatar
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    So the order from top down is...SB, OCF, GI, SS-UC?
    Knotty
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  6. #6
    BillyBob58's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knotty View Post
    So the order from top down is...SB, OCF, GI, SS-UC?
    Yep. Of course, you can do with out the GI and just put insulation in the UC ( down jacket whatever) like Kwpapke did at -26F. But like I said, the challenge there is not compressing and keeping dry, 2 problems this approach probably solve. Other ways are having enough weight down there ( I think kwpapke had a pad down there under the down) to overcome the UC elastic just enough to allow the down to loft BUT not so much as to have a gap. And or hanging the UC super loose, to decrease compression. Some one here did that with a Pea Pod down there, and it worked for them.

    Lots of things to experiment with! ( aka play time) Especially for those who already have a SS and want to stick with it.
    For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory that is to be revealed to us....that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now.
    Romans 8:18,21-22

  7. #7
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    Don't have anything to add, but I'm following this with much interest. Thanks for the discussion, guys!
    - Frawg

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  8. #8
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    I just made a Wallysil* GI shell and checked it out by itself. It turned a comfortable hang into a noticably hot one in a very few minutes. I'll check it out in earnest when I'm back in VA in a few days; I plan on spending several nights hanging in the back yard. Night time lows there seem to be touching the upper 50s, so I'll get a chance to try the leaf bag / space blanket insulation idea.

    As a bonus, it looks like the Wallysil GI shell will serve as a weather shield to complement my smallish (5 x 10) tarp. I seem to be backtracking on the evolutionary tree here, where Risk and Ray Garlington were a few years back. Should be educational.



    *Wallysil - Walmart 'bargain' fabric that seems to be silnylon
    - Frawg

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  9. #9
    BillyBob58's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frawg View Post
    I just made a Wallysil* GI shell and checked it out by itself. It turned a comfortable hang into a noticably hot one in a very few minutes. I'll check it out in earnest when I'm back in VA in a few days; I plan on spending several nights hanging in the back yard. Night time lows there seem to be touching the upper 50s, so I'll get a chance to try the leaf bag / space blanket insulation idea.

    As a bonus, it looks like the Wallysil GI shell will serve as a weather shield to complement my smallish (5 x 10) tarp. I seem to be backtracking on the evolutionary tree here, where Risk and Ray Garlington were a few years back. Should be educational.



    *Wallysil - Walmart 'bargain' fabric that seems to be silnylon
    Looking forward to your results!

    One thing different about the pure GI approach is no warm and tight against the body HH OCF pad and space blanket above the sil shell and GI. So obviously you will need additional insulation in the GI to make up that. Not a problem of course, but a consideration. And I also wonder how the lack of these will effect over all condensation.

    But I'm glad you are about to find out for us! After a promising start, I sort of dropped out of the test to see how well a GI could be made to work. Does your wally-sil shell have any kind of elastic suspension to allow it to adjust some what, allow it to have some "give" after your body weight sags down into it?
    For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory that is to be revealed to us....that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now.
    Romans 8:18,21-22

  10. #10
    Frawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BillyBob58 View Post
    One thing different about the pure GI approach is no warm and tight against the body HH OCF pad and space blanket above the sil shell and GI. So obviously you will need additional insulation in the GI to make up that. Not a problem of course, but a consideration.
    I plan on replicating what Ray described - crumpled newspapers, as well as a crumpled space blanket or two inside of some leaf bags. Heck, I may even have a ton of leaves available when I get back home; my lawn seems to be the neighborhood leaf catcher!

    And I also wonder how the lack of these will effect over all condensation.
    I could tell just from this morning that condensation will probably be a concern, if not an issue. I was getting that CCF against my back kind of feel after a little while, the feeling that would be clammy if it were cooler outside. It was pushing 80* when I did the trial fit this AM.

    But I'm glad you are about to find out for us! After a promising start, I sort of dropped out of the test to see how well a GI could be made to work.
    I noticed on Ray's 'silk hammock' page his observation that the idea hadn't seemed to catch on, but I haven't seen any discussion that sheds light on why. I'm also curious what happened to his unbaffled 'bag of feathers' idea. I'm guessing that baffles have proved to be the only reasonable way to maintain consistent loft and avoid cold spots.

    Does your wally-sil shell have any kind of elastic suspension to allow it to adjust some what, allow it to have some "give" after your body weight sags down into it?
    Not yet. As it is right now I just have draw cord channels on all the edges; I iteratively adjusted the end ties this morning, but I have some elastic I can put through the channels to test that approach.

    It did occur to me to try some draw cord holes in the middle of the long edges. If you follow the link to Ray's "Previous Information", he routed a draw cord pull from the foot up along the ridge line. That didn't appeal to me, so I want to see if a center - accessible draw cord would be workable and convenient.

    I'll keep y'all posted.

    Edit: Think I'll go ahead and add corner tabs while I'm at it...
    - Frawg

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