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  1. #11
    BillyBob58's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frawg View Post
    ..............

    I noticed on Ray's 'silk hammock' page his observation that the idea hadn't seemed to catch on, but I haven't seen any discussion that sheds light on why. ..........
    It didn't catch on with me because I was using it to augment a SS and then I got side tracked with top loading hammocks and a PeaPod and then a JRB BMBH with MWUQ. But, I thought it was working pretty darn good in the SS and had originally planned on testing at much colder temps than the high teens, which is the lowest I used it. I just didn't have enough cold temps to test my down gear and HHSS with GI.


    Not yet. As it is right now I just have draw cord channels on all the edges; I iteratively adjusted the end ties this morning, but I have some elastic I can put through the channels to test that approach.

    It did occur to me to try some draw cord holes in the middle of the long edges. If you follow the link to Ray's "Previous Information", he routed a draw cord pull from the foot up along the ridge line. That didn't appeal to me, so I want to see if a center - accessible draw cord would be workable and convenient.

    I'll keep y'all posted.

    Edit: Think I'll go ahead and add corner tabs while I'm at it...
    Please do keep us posted. If not using a HHSS, how about something that you could adjust after you got in the hammock, or is that what you have already, or are planning? That way you could get in and then pull the insulation snug against your back. Just a thought.
    Last edited by BillyBob58; 09-22-2009 at 20:06.
    For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory that is to be revealed to us....that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now.
    Romans 8:18,21-22

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by BillyBob58 View Post
    ... But, I thought it was working pretty darn good in the SS and had originally planned on testing at much colder temps than the high teens, which is the lowest I used it. I just didn't have enough cold temps to test my down gear and HHSS with GI.
    That's encouraging to hear! I'll also be heading back to Virginia at year's end, so that should give me some lower temps also. And you may not get the really low temps there in Tupelo, but from what recall of Biloxi the combination of February cold and humidity cut through me like a knife! I imagine the sil could help a bit with that.

    If not using a HHSS, how about something that you could adjust after you got in the hammock, or is that what you have already, or are planning? That way you could get in and then pull the insulation snug against your back. Just a thought.
    Yeah, I was planning on ultimately being able to make final adjustments from inside the hammock, which is what had me thinking about drawstring pull points at the center of the long edges, i.e., near mid-hammock. I'm using a two-layer DIY top loader, btw.

    Two other things occur to me as I do this -- I could perhaps put darts at the head and foot of the shell to get rid of some of the extra fabric that the draw cord snugs up at each end; not all of it, of course, but there is quite a bit of apparently unnecessary 'taco' on the ends. Alternatively, the size of this thing might make it workable as a poncho. But that's a rabbit trail I'll leave for another day.

    Cheers!
    - Frawg

    {generic tagline}

  3. #13
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    ok so a few questions:

    -is this just a ghetto thermarest? basically a pad filled with air?

    -along those lines, if you don't fill it w/ something (insulation of some sort) then the air inside the bag will simply get cold every time you move (same principle as the big agnes clearview)... a sleeping pad is only as good as the insulation inside it.

    -any worries about sideways rain blowing into the bottom of the taco and filling it up?

  4. #14
    BillyBob58's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by swoosh View Post
    ok so a few questions:

    -is this just a ghetto thermarest? basically a pad filled with air?
    Yep, pretty much!

    -along those lines, if you don't fill it w/ something (insulation of some sort) then the air inside the bag will simply get cold every time you move (same principle as the big agnes clearview)... a sleeping pad is only as good as the insulation inside it.
    An air mattress is probably better than nothing, and in my case I was just using it to add a few degrees or more to the already warm HH Super Shelter. However, the way to go is to definitely add some insulation into the sack/bag to make the contained air more dead. Any number of things can work quite well, from a down or synthetic garment you are not wearing to bed, a 2 oz space blanket, some Climashield insulation, some leaves, or a mixture of things. 800 FP down would probably work better than most of those items, but they will still help a good bit more than just air will work. Also, seems to me, one of the main advantages of adding insulation into the sealed bag is that it can not be easily compressed by your body weight on top of it.

    -any worries about sideways rain blowing into the bottom of the taco and filling it up?
    Well, maybe. But the SS under cover won't hold but a little water without draining out the opening. I suppose you could add some drainage to a taco. And the insulation in the sealed bag won't be hurt by the water, another advantage. But if that much rain is blowing over the edge of the undercover, you are probably already in serious trouble any way. And in most conditions, the under cover will just give you a good bit of extra protection against wind and blowing rain/snow.
    Last edited by BillyBob58; 09-22-2009 at 20:26.
    For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory that is to be revealed to us....that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now.
    Romans 8:18,21-22

  5. #15
    Frawg's Avatar
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    Quickie field report. Slept out last night inside a silnylon taco and a large lawn leaf bag stuffed with a pair of folded, crinkled space blankets held up against my torso. I left the bag open on the end, just for grins.

    Also added a kludged pseudo UQ made of cheap fleece & SP sewed inside a breathable ripstop, except that I used it like a pad under my lower extremities. I inserted it inside the double layered hammock.

    Also used a crude top quilt I'd made from a single layer of (1" ?) synthetic fiber batting from Joanne's, sewn inside a breathable ripstop case.

    Temp only got down to about 63* F last night, so it wasn't much of a test. As expected, I stayed toasty warm. It was also rather breezy at times, but the taco kept the breezes at bay all night. In the wee hours before dawn I did notice the beginnigs of a warm clammy feeling like you get with a CCF pad.

    Edit: I was just wearing some UA running shorts and a short sleeve synthetic shirt; no socks or head gear.

    Tonight's lows are projected for the upper 40s, so it should be a good test.

    More later...
    - Frawg

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  6. #16
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    Temp got down to 51* F last night. I added a second leaf bag with crumpled newspaper, blew some air into it and tied the end off. All else was the same except that I added an athletic warm-up suit and a watch cap to my clothing. I slept okay, but a bit on the cool side. I never got uncomfortable, and even slept better than the previous night. I think I put too few newspapers and too much air in that second bag. I'll forgo the newspaper-filled bag tonight and add a small amount of air to the bag with the space blankets. It's projected to be slightly warmer the next couple of nights, before dropping to the mid 40s with rain over the weekend. That should prove interesting...
    - Frawg

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  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frawg View Post
    Temp got down to 51* F last night. I added a second leaf bag with crumpled newspaper, blew some air into it and tied the end off. All else was the same except that I added an athletic warm-up suit and a watch cap to my clothing. I slept okay, but a bit on the cool side. I never got uncomfortable, and even slept better than the previous night. I think I put too few newspapers and too much air in that second bag. I'll forgo the newspaper-filled bag tonight and add a small amount of air to the bag with the space blankets. It's projected to be slightly warmer the next couple of nights, before dropping to the mid 40s with rain over the weekend. That should prove interesting...
    Interesting results! And you are testing the pure GI approach. Unlike me, who was using it to beef up the already pretty warm HHSS with OCF pads and space blanket. But if a hammock is approaching "cool on the backside" for many folks below 75*F( and most folks below 70) then it sounds like you are getting 20-25*F worth of insulation from you GI. That is a pretty good amount to be added to the SS or, say,a Pea Pod.

    Have you got any other interesting items to use as insulation inside the leaf bags? Like a down or PG jacket/parks/vest? A spare piece of raw insulation, like a sheet of Climashield or Polarguard? Or how about some dry leaves? Those could be really warm when available.
    For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory that is to be revealed to us....that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now.
    Romans 8:18,21-22

  8. #18
    Frawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BillyBob58 View Post
    Have you got any other interesting items to use as insulation inside the leaf bags? Like a down or PG jacket/parks/vest? A spare piece of raw insulation, like a sheet of Climashield or Polarguard? Or how about some dry leaves? Those could be really warm when available.
    I was hoping to use dry leaves, but in my neighborhood only the dogwoods seem to be just turning color here. The oaks are still green. My wife may have some synthetic batting hidden away in her craft stuff, and I think we have a couple of old pillows that may have cheap feather stuffing. ... hmm, we even had a couple of old quilts somewhere and some old sleeping bags as well. I'll see what's on hand and negotiate a sacrifice or two for tonight.

    So far, I favor the crinkled space blanket stuffing -- cheap, lightweight, easy to pack down and relatively effective. Only problem I have is that I don't care for the marginally clammy feeling I get toward morning.

    More later...
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  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frawg View Post

    So far, I favor the crinkled space blanket stuffing -- cheap, lightweight, easy to pack down and relatively effective. Only problem I have is that I don't care for the marginally clammy feeling I get toward morning.

    More later...
    Yeah, that is something to consider. Most of us( but not all) who use a space blanket on top of the HH OCF pad have little or no condensation problems, and I have never been aware of a "clammy" feeling. Whether I added a GI below the pad or not. But, the pad holds the space blanket close to the body, so it is probably always pretty close to skin temp, no matter how cold outside. So that may make a dif as far as condensation on the space blanket or a clammy feeling from high humidity drifting up from below. Plus the space blanket, widely spread out, seems to keep most moisture/condensation out of the under cover. So there is not much down there to drift upwards and cause a clammy feeling, and the space blanket(vapor barrier) would probably keep most of it out of the hammock if there was.

    So I'm thinking that your GIs are maybe not as wide as the HH pad/space blanket, which also somewhat wraps around me. So, they may be allowing more insensible perspiration to reach the under cover and condense? Or at least allow a bunch of humidity to build up in the UC?

    Whatever, still not bad for the money, and pretty low weight and bulk.
    For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory that is to be revealed to us....that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now.
    Romans 8:18,21-22

  10. #20
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    Good thoughts, BillyBob...

    My thought was that the clamminess was from my perspiration, with the leaf bag acting as a vapor barrier since that's the part that's held closest to my backside by the silnylon taco. The space blanket in this setup is actually folded a couple of times, after pre-crinkling,to fit inside the (clear) leaf bag. The leaf bag lays out flat and it's 30" x 39", give or take a smidge. I've been positioning it like you would a short UQ, but I may make a second one and rotate them for an effective size of 39" x 60". Actually, the dimensions will shrink in the 39" side since I'll be tying the bags off tonight. I had left the one open, previously.

    Tonight's low will be relatively gentle so I'll use the leaf bag(s) again. When it gets cooler over the weekend I'll check out whatever 'exotic' materials I can liberate from storage here.

    Interesting stuff, and I'm slowly but surely getting my act together. I also have come to appreciate more and more the contributions of those who've gone before. Don't know what happened to Steve, but Risk is still somewhat active on the Yahoo hammock group.

    Cheers!
    - Frawg

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