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  1. #21
    Senior Member TinaLouise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kankujoe View Post
    You've made a very important observation....

    But now the question... Which gear should be bulletproof regardless of weight & Which gear can be lite weight without compromising function/comfort?
    very good question!!
    I went through those thoughts and choices when I changed from tarp-tent (about a pound and a half) to hammocks (clark w/tarp probably close to 4 pounds) and when I went from a GG vapor ki pack (2 pounds) to an Aarn pack (close to 4 pounds).
    My clark and the aarn pack are both more bulletproof than the tarp-tent and the GG pack. Plus they almost double my weight that I carry. But what I've found in the field actually carrying them and using the hammock is that I'm way happier with the weight on my back and in the mornings I'm pain free!! I'm still testing everything that goes inside my pack, if it doesn't get used on a trip, desicions have to be made on the next trip of if I really need to carry that item. To me, bulletproof means an item is gonna work everytime I use it. I use the pack and some kind of sleeping system on every trip and I don't want them to fail. I also use a pepsi can stove, it's not bulletproof in that it can be crushed. So I take pains to make sure it's protected. But in using it, it's never not worked, so sort of bulletproof (crushable but works all the time & very light wieght). Compromises have to be addressed in whatever gear you carry. And you need to know what kind of issues you personally have. For example, I like my hammock to be more bulletproof, I just tend to feel "safer" in it and that tends to cause me to fall asleep, well at the speed of a bullet!! Is it just my "perception" of safety, well maybe?? Every person has to make the choices of what they will carry, what to them has to be bulletproof and what they could live without if it were to fail. This is my main reason for do so much testing with my hammock & quilts.
    TinaLouise
    my clark weight also included an UQ, I guess my tarp-tent weight could also be upped if I added my treking poles and a hu-mong-gusly thick sleeping pad that I had to have just to be able to sleep in it!!!
    Last edited by TinaLouise; 09-21-2009 at 12:26. Reason: weights

  2. #22
    Senior Member Scratch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MedicineMan View Post
    Lewis/Clarke probably did a lot more bushwacking which would kill todays gramweenie gear.
    Now admittedly, I've not done anything close to Lewis/Clarke. But I do think today's gear is surprisingly robust. I bushwhack a lot in the Superstition wilderness east of Phoenix. Just about every plant in the desert has stickers. I trudge through catclaw, scrub oak, manzanita, etc. After a day of hiking, my arms and legs will look like I've been whipped with a cat-o-ninetails, but my backpack survives just fine. I'll take my 70denier ripstop GG pack instead of the 30denier. But that's the only thing I do different. I've thought about getting the 210denier GG Gorilla for additionaly margin ... but even then, it's only a 1.5pound backpack.

    If a person feels better about using heavier, more conventional gear, I'm not going to try to talk them out of it. HYOH.
    Dan

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  3. #23
    Senior Member Scratch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TinaLouise View Post
    Is it just my "perception" of safety, well maybe??
    I think this is a good point. A number things I do is based on "perception". I prefer a hammock with a bugnet instead of one without (even though it would save me a few ounces). My "perception" is I feel safer (I know, I know laugh on ... ). Perception is reality.
    Dan

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  4. #24
    Senior Member Scratch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kankujoe View Post
    But now the question... Which gear should be bulletproof regardless of weight & Which gear can be lite weight without compromising function/comfort?
    My response would be: The more protected the gear, the less "bulletproof" it needs to be. The backpack is the most exposed. I think it needs to be bulletproof (to the wearer's definition). My titanium pot is in my pack and by golly, it's titanium ... so I don't need to think about it. I wouldn't want a mylar tarp but 210denier nylon would be overkill (IMO). I guess the definition of "bulletproof" for a hammock would depend on how & where a person uses them. If I were constantly having to go to the ground, my definition might change.

    I'm still experimenting with water filtration devices. I've had my sweetwater break in the field (twice), my frontier pro clog, chemicals are slow but reliable, boiling water is reliable but uses up fuel and takes time .... I'm playing with a Seripen now. So far, so good. But who knows what I'll be using next year ... trying to find the best compromise between function and comfort (in my case, comfort = weight).

    Good thread.
    Dan

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  5. #25
    Senior Member Kankujoe's Avatar
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    This is a great thread with great responses!!

    It's great to hear from the people out there doing the adventures... what works, what doesn't and why...

    It's easy getting caught in "the next best thing," I'd like to know what has done well over time and is still doing well...
    KJ

  6. #26
    Senior Member molawns's Avatar
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    Some great responses!

    For me, it's not an issue of Old School vs. New School. I have certain criteria I follow when selecting and using gear, but it is a delicate balancing act. Here's the "prioritized factors" I follow when selecting and using gear (in no particular order)...

    1.) packability
    2.) versatility
    3.) reliability
    4.) convenience
    5.) weight

    When selecting a piece of gear, it gets evaluated on each of these points. I don't use a set particular order, since different activities have different priorities. Most of my time spent outdoors is either kayaking or day hiking...two different activities with different needs. Kayaking affords me the ability to pack a bit heavier than if I were actually carrying the gear on my back, so the priority order would change accordingly. When day hiking, my priority needs change a bit and I go lighter. Sometimes, time-tested gear that's bombproof is what I need. Other times, it's "New School", cobweb-thin and light-as-a-feather stuff that I haul around.

    I first discovered these principals from an article found here. It's a good read. Mainly geared towards paddling, but like I said you can change the order of the priorities to suit your particular hobbies and/or personal requirements. (Yes, I'm the one who contributed my picture/breakdown of my summer loadout found at the bottom of the article. My set-up is a bit different now, though.)

  7. #27
    Senior Member TeeDee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hike4WD View Post
    My response would be: The more protected the gear, the less "bulletproof" it needs to be. The backpack is the most exposed. I think it needs to be bulletproof (to the wearer's definition).
    Well there are 2 things that are the most exposed: Backpack and clothes (I include shoes with the clothes).

    It's kind of scary to think of emerging from the woods in your birthday suit (or close to it) simply because all of your clothes were so badly ripped that they were no longer usable.

    The backpack survived so maybe it would be possible to rig it to wear it.

    I still remember the silnylon poncho that kept me drenched with sweat and I was really glad when it was so badly shredded that it let in a cooling breeze. Felt better getting wet from the rain than the sweat. I think it lasted all of 2 hours.
    Those who sacrifice freedom for safety, have neither.

    Do not dig your grave with your teeth. (Unknown)

  8. #28
    Senior Member Scratch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TeeDee View Post
    It's kind of scary to think of emerging from the woods in your birthday suit (or close to it) simply because all of your clothes were so badly ripped that they were no longer usable.
    That's why I wear this:
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Dan

    Hangin' ROCKS!

  9. #29
    Senior Member Pastorus's Avatar
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    This really is a great thread, and I like how Dan protects his birthday suit.

    I have to say that I am so disappointed. I had my toenails surgically removed just so I didn't have to bring toenail clippers and now I find out that you can cut wood with them.
    "Well, you might be lazy, but if we were not all about comfort here this would be a tent forum!" - - Roadtorque

  10. #30
    Senior Member Scratch's Avatar
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    Well, back to the OP's question ...
    There are only a couple of things I will not skimp on, no matter what the weight.

    1) A good night's sleep. I probably spent the most money and tried the greatest number of sleeping pads and combination of pads to achieve this in a tent. Thank heaven for this forum, now I get a great night's sleep, with little change in my base weight. I can honestly say I sleep as well on a backpacking trip as I do at home (since I sleep in a hammock at home).
    2) Warmth. This is an item where weight and item selection is not mutually exclusive. In terms of weight to warmth ratio, down is the best. I use down quilts, I bring along a down vest, I have a down JRB hood. I do not like being cold! I will add weight if I need to in order to be warm. I'm all set to spring for warmer UQ if my experimentation this winter suggest I need one. I'm fortunate I live in an area where moisture is of little concern. If rain is in the forecast, I pack accordingly ... then it won't rain for sure.
    3) Evening entertainment. Since I normally hike solo, the evening can be kind of boring. So I bring my iTouch & earplugs (5oz) so I can watch a movie, listen to music, read a book or play bejeweled.

    I go for lightweight in about every other category ... at least by my definition. For instance I don't cook in a Heineken can (yet). I don't mind eating from a ziplock. I use an alcohol stove. I have a cold breakfast with coffee (to save fuel weight). My "emergency" kit is 4oz. If I have a camp fire, I'll break sticks instead of bring my toenail clippers. Everyone's list of must have's will probably be different.
    Dan

    Hangin' ROCKS!

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