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  1. #31
    Old Gorge Rat Hawk-eye's Avatar
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    Talking

    Of course I'm an old fart ... but I can remember switching from a canvas pup tent to a canvas miner's tent to save weight! Then switching to a canvas tarp to get even lighter. I also remember my last canvas frame pack ... while it's nice to think back on ... wouldn't want to go backwards. That stuff is heavy! And when it rains ... it's heavier!

    Did I mention I love my HH and will only go to ground if forced too? Light weight tent or not!

    WARNING: Will discuss Rhurbarb Strawberry Pie and Livermush at random.


    "A democracy is two wolves and a small lamb voting on what to have for dinner.
    Freedom under a constitutional republic is a well armed lamb contesting the vote." ... B.Franklin


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  2. #32
    MedicineMan's Avatar
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    bullet proof? nothing you can buy; a stout bushcraft knife like the Skookum Bushtool is bullet proof until you break it! but the ability to make a knife.....
    and a bushwacking test for a pack is falling down a scree slope with the pack on, riding the pack with your body weight until you stop...typical run ins with chola or banging against limbs is not a test for instant durability but is for long term...and that is the next question eh? how many times can it withstand the abuse.
    It's all about playing the odds. I'm careful, avoid slamming the pack down, cautious about where I hang....and one mouse hops in the pack for a ride at a brief shelter stop

  3. #33
    Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kankujoe View Post
    I have been bicycling camping, tent camping. hiking, kayak/canoe camping (and yes, trailer/teardrop camping) for almost 50 years since I was a kid. Even with all this other experience I am new to hammock camping & lite weight backpacking. Most of my experience has been Old School when weight was rarely a major factor, you bought quality, rugged equipment that would take abuse and last, and you were not as concerned with going lite weight verses camping/exploring in comfort. Definately not going to the point of counting grams/ounces...

    My heros have always been "Lewis & Clark" and their "Corps of Discovery." What a camping/backpacking/canoe trip! This expedition carried/moved tons of supplies & equipment on their 2-3 year camping trip.

    Today it seems that most of the New School wisdom is to carry as little weight and stuff as possible. I can see some benefit to this mindset for long-distance - long-term adventures but what about comfort/utility during these adventures? Most of my adventures are by necessity "mini-adventures" since I have to maintain my employment & family life. If I lug something heavy it is usually only for a weekend and not six months or so.

    So where is the trade-off? At what point is the New School really wisdom and the Old School not wisdom?

    As an example, one of my favorite pursuits is cycling... it can get really ridiculous & expensive in a hurry... I've seen men like me (who carry 15-25 pounds in extra weight around our bellies) debate spending hundreds of dollars more on bicycles & equipment to shave off a few ounces or a pound. Seems rather foolish when you could/should drop a few pounds off your body instead of worrying about a few ounces on a bicycle... Of course this translates to almost all outdoor pursuits today...

    So back to hammock camping... where's the trade off? Comfort vs. weight? I like my gadgets & gizmos... I like fiddling with things on the trail & in camp... I like a clean pair of socks & underwear... I'd prefer to have an axe or stout knife with me verses cutting firewood with toenail clippers...

    I'd also like to hear the opinions & experience of those on this forum about this Old School vs. New School debate...
    For me I shed pack weight in one way to add fun stuff. My pack seems to always weigh in around 30 lbs. If it is a short trip I load up on the fun stuff.

    I do a lot of traveling for work and have a couple big fun trips in the works. For me it's about simplicity. The less stuff I have, the less I have to keep track of, the less I have to carry around, the more moble I am. Everything becomes easier. It's way easier to 2 bags I can carry easily up stairs and across town, than 4 or 5 that I need to make multiple trips. Not really camping related, but the same theory.
    Is that too much to ask? Girls with frikkin' lasers on their heads?
    The hanger formly known as "hammock engineer".

  4. #34
    Senior Member Triggerhpy's Avatar
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    Yep I'm an old fart too. I have issues with gear failure. I don't like down because of the extra care to keep it dry and the storage. I can't use lil' wood stoves because of the fire danger (SoCal) alky and white gas are almost as bad. Water is harder to find so we have to carry extra (6 llitres for San G ) I've left my tent at home with the maglite. Traded the Lg sierra cup for an Orikaso cup. So there is a place for light weight gear in my pack.
    I will keep looking for new/better light weight gear that fits my needs/budget.
    UL works for some people but not for me.
    Tortoise never for a moment stopped, but went on with a slow but steady pace straight to the end of the course.
    Translated by George Fyler Townsend. Aesop's Fables (p. 18). Amazon Digital Services, Inc..

  5. #35
    pegleg56's Avatar
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    This is a great thread with lots of ideas and information. Reading this brings to mind the old adage ... " the lighter my pack the more I enjoy hiking, the heavier my pack the more I enjoy camping".
    If you can hike all day with a 40 - 50# pack and enjoy yourself, go for it. I hike with a nephew that can do this, and I hate him. I used to be able to do this, but with age and physical conditioning being what it is now, there is no way. As a lot of posts have stated, the gear today serves the same purpose as the gear of yesterday, only much lighter and sometimes multi-purpose. I hike to enjoy myself and my surroundings, and I couldn't do that with a 50# pack. So if I can find a piece of gear that provides the comfort and utility, and weighs less then what I am currently carrying, I'm going for it.
    As for hammocking, this was a comfort decission for me. My tarptent weighs less then my hammock and tarp, but is not anywhere close to being as comfortable. And a good (excuse me ...."great") nights sleep is worth the extra ounces in my pack. It also provides a comfortable place to sit, and just looks cool.
    So, getting back to the question of "Old School vs. New School" ...... it's not that we have lost anything in the way of the experience, but that the new and lighter products are enabling us to enjoy it more and maybe longer. I hope to be on the trail into my seventies and possibly eighties.
    I'm so out of shape ......I passed gas yesterday and pulled a muscle!

  6. #36
    Senior Member Scratch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pegleg56 View Post
    So, getting back to the question of "Old School vs. New School" ...... it's not that we have lost anything in the way of the experience, but that the new and lighter products are enabling us to enjoy it more and maybe longer. I hope to be on the trail into my seventies and possibly eighties.
    UL has given me that same hope ... to hike at least into my seventies. I enyoy the "hiking" much more now.

    I choose my gear based on a realistic view of what may happen to me out in the wilderness, not a worst case scenario. I'm sure there's always a slight chance that I'll regret it, but I'm willing to take that chance.
    Dan

    Hangin' ROCKS!

  7. #37
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    In 10 years what we do now willl be considered old school. We are just ahead of I time for being retro.
    Is that too much to ask? Girls with frikkin' lasers on their heads?
    The hanger formly known as "hammock engineer".

  8. #38
    Senior Member Cannibal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coffee View Post
    In 10 years what we do now willl be considered old school. We are just ahead of I time for being retro.
    Ah man! What's the average cost to save an ounce these days, like $70 or something? In the future, are grams gonna cost a Benjamin or a grand? I don't like the sound of this 'retro' thing. Best to leave that to disco.
    Trust nobody!

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cannibal View Post
    Ah man! What's the average cost to save an ounce these days, like $70 or something? In the future, are grams gonna cost a Benjamin or a grand? I don't like the sound of this 'retro' thing. Best to leave that to disco.
    And how I love to dance.
    Is that too much to ask? Girls with frikkin' lasers on their heads?
    The hanger formly known as "hammock engineer".

  10. #40
    Senior Member Perkolady's Avatar
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    For me, I think age and experience play a great part in my gear 'evolution'.

    I started with the old-school stuff, and youth allowed me to carry it without too much notice. A lot has changed in 30 years though.

    As I replace gear, I admit I pay particular attention to the weight, yet I also want function to be there.

    I figure if I can find something that serves the same function for a little less weight, why not try it out?

    On the other hand, I carry more clothing than many people. I get cold easily and I'm not cutting corners by wearing a thong or some such thing!

    I LIKE my insulated mug and my pillow and other things that cause me to be exempt from the UL club.

    I think one important thing to consider is how hard we are on our gear. While some can get along just fine with a 'delicate' pack for example, many people do better with more durable gear that weighs accordingly.

    Either way, we each have to carry our own loads, and what ultimately matters is that we have what we need and want to enjoy our trip.

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