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  1. #11
    Senior Member TeeDee's Avatar
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    Wall thickness - I'll have to measure. I ordered it at least a year ago and probably longer - don't remember what I ordered. I know it is welded and drawn and 1/4" OD. I looked on the McMaster-Carr website and they don't seem to carry what I ordered anymore, 36" long.

    As to how many dead men to carry?

    That will depend on how reliably they can be retrieved. If 100% retrieval then probably 3. 2 for possible use on one end - 1 more likely and 1 backup. I have never experienced a site where at least 1 tree wasn't available.

    I don't think I could rely on a retrieval mechanism that depended on brute force, pulling them up. Some soils where they are hammered in, would make that impossible. It would also make digging them up very unlikely.

    If the retrieval rate is less than 100% I would fall back to using a doubled length of my Dyneema guy line cord with fixed eye splices on both ends and rely on being able to retrieve the guy line by inserting driver in one eye and pulling.

    As the retrieval rate drops, the number needed to carry goes up of course. Don't really know of the relationship between rate and number carried though. That would, of course, also depend on the number of sites the anchors were needed. I haven't really ever tried to quantify that, but my guess is maybe an max of 4 to 6 per trip.

    So if I figure 0% retrieval rate on the dead man and 6 sites and 1 anchor per site, then I would need to carry 6 anchors and 1 backup, 7 total. If the 1/4" ss tubing could be used. 3" lengths would give a total of 2.2 oz for the 7 dead men (0.31 oz each).

    It looks like you are using steel cable - true? With the cable fastened permanently to the dead man through a drilled hole - True?

    Have you thought of a method of attaching guy line cord so that both ends can be above surface and the guy line cord retrieved in case the dead man cannot? With a retrieval rate less than 100%, I think retrieving the cord would be mandatory. That complicates the mechanism for attaching the cord to the dead man.

    Quote Originally Posted by XexorZ View Post
    Excellent ideas - I will keep them handy as things progress!

    Q: What wall thickness is your SS tubing? VERY light (or so it seems!)

    Re: TI - initially my thoughts we're "Titanium EVERYTHING!"... that is until I investigated the price! The pure TI is acceptable though. If AL w/ SS end cap doesn't hold up I will give this a spin.

    Anchor is constructed (currently) of 1/2 aluminum tubing and appears to be PLENTY strong for the application but it won't take to bending tabs / barbs / etc at all (not plastic enough) but that SS tubing you mentioned would - assuming it is strong enough at the thickness needed to be light enough :-)

    How many "anchors" do you think a person would carry?

    I figure you need AT LEAST 2 if you have a dual Bi-Pod for your hammock... and carry at LEAST 1 spare... so 3 is a MINIMUM in my mind...

    If you use dual Mono-Pod setup you need AT LEAST 4... and I'd carry 2 spare... so 6 "minimum"...

    Thanks for the input and interest!

    -XexorZ (Pronounced Zex or Zee for the curious)
    Those who sacrifice freedom for safety, have neither.

    Do not dig your grave with your teeth. (Unknown)

  2. #12
    Senior Member XexorZ's Avatar
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    Steel Cable: True (everything else I tried was cut by the anchor far before its max pull (tried two types of nylon, no Dyneema / Spectra on hand)

    W/ steel, pulling it through won't work due to the need for ferrule and stops. Any "hook" could fall off prematurely (ugh!)

    I'd much rather work out a very-high percentile retrieval system.

    I agree - brute strength retrieval is iffy. It is possible to get these things stuck so good that even the cable would break if you were to use a lever to get it out...

    I think a "two cable" system is in order - one cable is the fastener and the second is the retrieval cable. The retrieval cable is on an end so it pulls the anchor out "feet first" or "head first" - but making it so this doesn't get in the way of the initial drive in may be an issue. Assembly can be an issue. Durability can be an issue... lots of issues to balance... Keep thinking (so will I)

  3. #13
    gargoyle's Avatar
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    Mule tape could easily slide back out thru the toggle, knot it up doubled for insertion, after hanging, untie the knot, and slide out.

    Also been thinking (dangerous) about those collapsible toggle/wedge style bolts that open up under tension. Similar to a duckbill push pole. If you could tighten it to collapse the bill section for easy removal. Leave the insert tool attached while hanging, then a couple of turns on the handle, push down another inch or two, retighten and the duckbill would close for removal. You could put an eye on the insertion tool to hook your suspension from, eliminating the need for additional line or cable.
    Ambulo tua ambulo.

  4. #14
    MacEntyre's Avatar
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    Have you tried a trip wire on one end of the dead man? [EDIT: oops, that is suggested above]
    Quote Originally Posted by XerorZ
    If you use dual Mono-Pod setup...
    That's what's appealing to me. Two six or seven foot poles from aluminum tubing easily can be carried by one person.

    However, I want to carry such a rig in the semi-desert Western US, where the soil is very hard...
    "We must, indeed, all hang together or, most assuredly, we shall all hang separately." - Ben Franklin
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  5. #15
    Senior Member TeeDee's Avatar
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    I've been thinking about this some more and decided to try making one myself.

    I decided to use the 1/4" OD stainless steel tubing I have (4.4 mm ID, wall thickness 0.078").

    I couldn't think of any convenient way of using a cylindrical dead man as you do, so decided to revert back to the washer dead man.

    Cut a slot in one end of the s.s. tube to accommodate the washer:



    and notched the end to hold whatever I put through the washer:



    I then took a 1/8" x 2" cotter pin to put through the washer and hold the guy line cord. Decided to use the guy line cord since I know I wouldn't be able to retrieve the washer.

    Used a length of my dyneema guy line cord, spliced fixed eyes in both ends, doubled the cord and inserted the doubled end through the eye of the cotter pin. That gives me 4 lengths of guy line cord. The cord is rated at 400 lbs , so I figure the 1500 to 1600 lbs should be adequate to hold the hammock.

    I found that I can bend the cotter pin once through the washer using a spare cotter pin. That way I can just carry the washers and cotter pins and assemble as needed.

    The washer and cotter pin weigh 0.3 oz, the s.s. driver with a lanyard on the opposite end weighs 1.55 oz.

    Tested under a tree in the back yard. Needed a hammer to drive the dead man into the ground. The first and second I didn't drive deep enough. 3" to 4" on the first and about 6" on the second and I could pull both straight up with the driver through the eye splices and the doubled end of the cord.

    Decided to go all the way with the third and drove it approximately 10" to 11". That left approximately 2" of cord above ground. Pulled to set and kept pulling. At first is held and then slowly started pulling free.

    The cotter pin unbent and came free.

    I was afraid that would be the weak point, but the cotter pin is the simplest and easiest method I thought of.

    Now I need to either devise a way to keep the cotter pin from coming free or a substitute for the cotter pin.

    Any suggestions?
    Those who sacrifice freedom for safety, have neither.

    Do not dig your grave with your teeth. (Unknown)

  6. #16
    in it for the naps oldgringo's Avatar
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    Could you bend the ends of the pin once more, over the "top" of the washer? The soil column would then help hold the pin.
    Dave

    http://www.uark.edu/misc/xtimber/rna/pattonsbluff.html

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  7. #17
    Senior Member TeeDee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldgringo View Post
    Could you bend the ends of the pin once more, over the "top" of the washer? The soil column would then help hold the pin.
    I'll give that a try.

    That'll give me an excuse to use my Gerber Clutch multi-tool - always like that.

    I'd like to retain the cotter pin - cheap, light and easy to assemble. Don't know if that is possible though.
    Those who sacrifice freedom for safety, have neither.

    Do not dig your grave with your teeth. (Unknown)

  8. #18
    MacEntyre's Avatar
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    That cotter pin probably is not going to hold several hundred pounds, not matter how many times it is bent, folded or mutiliated!

    Now, if you used a short, straight cotter pin as a toggle, with the eye of the dyneema cord through the hole in the washer, that might work.
    "We must, indeed, all hang together or, most assuredly, we shall all hang separately." - Ben Franklin
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  9. #19
    Senior Member TeeDee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacEntyre View Post
    That cotter pin probably is not going to hold several hundred pounds, not matter how many times it is bent, folded or mutiliated!

    Now, if you used a short, straight cotter pin as a toggle, with the eye of the dyneema cord through the hole in the washer, that might work.
    Well, yes and no

    yes - it would hold, the shear forces on the cotter pin probably wouldn't be enough to shear the cotter pin.The cord would break first.

    no - the cotter pin, as it is now, fits into the notch at the end of the driver and that allows the driver to push everything into the ground. With the cotter pin as a toggle, that leaves the cord to replace the cotter pin for driving into the ground. Don't think that would work.

    But the thought of using the cotter pin as a toggle merits further thought.
    Those who sacrifice freedom for safety, have neither.

    Do not dig your grave with your teeth. (Unknown)

  10. #20
    Frawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TeeDee View Post
    yes - it would hold, the shear forces on the cotter pin probably wouldn't be enough to shear the cotter pin.The cord would break first.
    IMHO, the cotter pin bends would unwrap before any metal failure occurred.

    But the thought of using the cotter pin as a toggle merits further thought.
    Seems a good idea.

    I've been mulling the workings of a molly bolt as a modus operandi to consider. Dunno about the availability of something heftier than for drywall use, though.
    - Frawg

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