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  1. #1

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    Double Super shelter + Over cover

    I have two Super shelter systems (pad + under cover) and one Over cover.

    If I hang both of those under covers and put the pads between under covers I will get double insulation and best possible condensation barrier to keep pads dry.

    Well that is what I think. Have not tested yet.

    Does the idea sound sound one? or
    Last edited by voivalin; 11-03-2009 at 08:01.

  2. #2
    Knotty's Avatar
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    Kind of a SS sandwich?

    UC/OCF,OCF/UC

    The upper UC (how paradoxical) will definitely act like a vapor barrier and I think doubling the OCF will increase the insulation.

    Give it a go and report back. Biggest downside I see is complexity and bulk. I just can't find a good way to compress the OCF pads for carrying.
    Knotty
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  3. #3

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    Portability of the double system

    Here in Nordic region of the Europe we use very often pulks. Norwegian manufacturer for example Fjellpulken.no makes them.

    I will test the system in my yard at fall and when the snow comes the whole package also the sleeping bag or bags will be rolled loosely and put to the pulk.

    So when it comes time to put up camp I simply lift the whole system up and use ski poles to fasten tarp lines and sidelines.

    Hope it works, it would be very easy system to camp in wintertime when putting up tent takes much more time. There is 1-2 meter snow at the Lapland, so it takes 10 minutes to stamp snow hard enough to put tent up and after that all tent lines must be dug in snow. Lots of manual labour and kneeling in snow (gore tex keeps one dry fortunately).
    Last edited by voivalin; 11-03-2009 at 12:30.

  4. #4

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    Ok - system is hanging

    It was quite struggle to keep all components in order. But now when it is ready using the system is as easy as in normal configuration.

    It is 0,5 C degree here, that is 32,9 F. Quick test gave me the impression that it would be warm night. But I have got a flu, and can not test yet.

    But at least I know it can be done.

  5. #5
    BillyBob58's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by voivalin View Post
    It was quite struggle to keep all components in order. But now when it is ready using the system is as easy as in normal configuration.

    It is 0,5 C degree here, that is 32,9 F. Quick test gave me the impression that it would be warm night. But I have got a flu, and can not test yet.

    But at least I know it can be done.
    I think the TOP UC ( ) will make a good vapor barrier and a more secure wind block than just one UC. But will it really accomplish that much more than a Heat Sheet or space blanket used in the normal fashion, considering the weight and complexity of initial set up? You could still use double pads under a Heatsheet.

    I do think that, once it was on, it would be a more stable set up than a single space blanket, which usually needs some adjustment each time it is hung. And the space blanket, without some sort of mod, is always a bit of a problem at the side pull outs.

    But, I would also have some concern about the bottom opening allowing some moisture to get down onto the pads. But maybe not a problem. But you are going to test it and we will soon know!
    For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory that is to be revealed to us....that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now.
    Romans 8:18,21-22

  6. #6

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    First nigh out

    It has been a little colder here. To be precise it was -4 - -4,5 Celcius (24 - 25 F) degrees last night. Humidity about 95-100 % Very little wind.

    Clothes: Fleece jacket, polyester shirt (long sleeves), winter cap, long sport trousers, cotton socks, wool socks, short cotton under pants.

    Sleeping bag: Quantum fabric, 800 g (28 ounce) down filling. Used as a quilt.

    Hammock: As said in the first message.

    Interior of the hammok stayed quite warm, temperature was between +2,5-+3,5 Celcius (37-38) degrees whole nigth. Thermometer was hanging mid air above me.

    My back was never cold, but chilly. There was a rhythm, probably caused by My own circulation regulation. Most of the time my back was warm, but without any warning it got cold for about 5 min, then it came warm again. And there was no shift in position or other extra exercise. First I thought it was wind, but there was so little wind that body's own circulation regulation is better explanation. When back got cold the extra heat was channeled from top side to warm up the back.

    Condensation was never a real problem. Net and over cover got moist, but because the inner temperature was over freezing point, it dried away fast enough. In tent all that moisture would have stayed in outer tents inner surface, and humidity would have been much bigger problem. Pads were dry. There was very few water droplets at the entrance slit, which I did not close good enough. I thought that it would simulate normal use better. I left the whole system hanging and in three hours it is quite dry, system is still up. It could have been packed immediately after I got out if in need to do so. The down bag is still inside, and we all know those are sensitive to moisture, they lose their warmness easily. I will see if it is warm enough next time I test the system.

    When it gets colder moisture is not a problem any more, because cold enough air is very dry.

    I was astonished how good it was to use sleeping bag as a quilt. It quite naturally got around me and stayed that way, in tent there is always air leakage if you use quilt. And because the bag was mostly over me and partly in my sides, it was warmer than in normal use as a bag. There was no flattened down under me, and the baffles were also without any stretch so there was no cold spots at all. It is also very easy to go out and back in, when there is no need to wiggle your body in to the bag and after that pull zipper closed. Again a big point for hammock when compared to tent.

    Over cover is between two under covers. There is a potential problem there. If snow comes under tarp and slides down on the over cover surface, it will go straight between two under covers and wet both of the pads after it melts. But if I put over cover as a outmost fabric wind will probably get in when over cover flaps free. I will test the best order in some point.

    Next step is to test if I can sleep over Thermarest pad (yes inside the hammock, I do not trust it to bend properly if put between undercovers). I have got full size deluxe model for winter use. Some kind of pad is needed anyway as a back-up if there is need to sleep on ground (or on snow in this case). If that works, then I ad synthetic bag under me and I should be very warm in any temperature.

  7. #7
    BillyBob58's Avatar
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    Thanks, good report! I immediately suspected wind as the cause of your come and go cold periods, but apparently not. I notice wind causing a comfort change less with the SS than with most systems( without a separate UC or pod) anyway, due to the wind block of the Sil-nyl UC.

    So zero condensation problems with the pads, or even in the hammock under your back? Interesting, as more than one person has had seemingly unsolvable problems, and at least as many(my impression) have had zero problems. Sort of a mystery to me. I used to attribute this simply to individual differences, but that does not quite satisfactorily explain condensation happening on the other side of a vapor barrier. But in your case, maybe a sil-nyl UC makes a better VB than a reflective space blanket? Even though those same space blankets have functioned just fine for me.
    For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory that is to be revealed to us....that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now.
    Romans 8:18,21-22

  8. #8

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    Wind question

    I hope that those chilly moments were not caused by wind. There was almost no wind at all, and if that can make me chill, what about the situation when there really is windy.

    So, I can't be sure about my theory about circulatory regulation, but I hope I'm right.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by voivalin View Post
    I hope that those chilly moments were not caused by wind. There was almost no wind at all, and if that can make me chill, what about the situation when there really is windy.

    So, I can't be sure about my theory about circulatory regulation, but I hope I'm right.
    Big tarp, (10' x 12'), will block a lot of wind.
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  10. #10
    Senior Member Big D's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gargoyle View Post
    Big tarp, (10' x 12'), will block a lot of wind.
    I agree with Gargoyle. A larger tarp might be helpful, especially, if bulk is not a concern.
    "Never tell people how to do things. Tell them what to do and they will surprise you with their ingenuity." Gen. George S. Patton

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