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  1. #1
    Senior Member pedro's Avatar
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    Amsteel, Dyneema and knots

    I posed this question in another thread, no one ever commented, either to confirm or deny. The best info I have is that a bowline hitch is not reccomended in Dyneema line, that a triple fisherman's bend should be used instead. This rope is very slick, and will not hold knots well. For Amsteel, a brummelled eye splice, on the other hand, is dead simple and rock solid. So, there was a thread by a fellow who had made up a very nice looking pair of whoopie slings, and had finished the ends with bowlines. This sounds as if it could be unsafe. I want others with more real world experience than me to weigh in on this subject. If people get the idea that they can tie knots in this stuff that won't hold in reality, somebody's gonna get hurt.

  2. #2
    Ken's Avatar
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    Hi Pedro. I have used the bowline with amsteel as the finishing knot when attaching slings to Hennessy hammocks. In that application the primary knot is a multi wrap sheet bend. The bowline secures the tag end back to the main line. I also half-hitched the tag end of the bowline to the main line and the put the stock cover back over the knots. I don't see any way the bowline can come loose in that application.

    I do really like the "double dragon" as a more secure substitute for the bowline though. It won't fall apart when unloaded as a bowline can.

    Double Dragon Knot #3

    Ken
    Last edited by Ken; 11-14-2009 at 08:21. Reason: corrected url
    http://www.linvillegorge.net

    "You can't hem up a Rat!" Malcom Johnson, ca. 1970

  3. #3
    Ken's Avatar
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    Ooops, sorry, I linked the double loop version of the double dragon.

    Here is the single loop page:

    Double Dragon is knot #3.

    Ken
    http://www.linvillegorge.net

    "You can't hem up a Rat!" Malcom Johnson, ca. 1970

  4. #4
    Senior Member TeeDee's Avatar
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    I used bowlines on my version of the SLS (25' length of Amsteel or AS-78 with bowline loops on each end over the Marlin Spike Hitch in the tree huggers). They worked and held very well.

    Amsteel is dyneema, but Samson puts their samthane coating on it. The coating, as I understand it, serves 2 purposes:

    1. UV protection, and
    2. provide grip for knots


    Don't know about the first point, but assume it works. I can attest that the samthane serves the second purpose very well. Prussics using Lash-It on Amsteel or AS-78 (samthane on samthane) hold exceedingly well.

    The bowlines I used to use on the SLS never slipped even a little bit - solid all the time.

    I now use my MSLS with Whoopie Slings made of AS-78. That relies on the samthane coating griping itself. It does so exceedingly well.

    Others are using the UCR or Whoopie Sling made from Amsteel and they are reporting no problems with slipping.

    So I think that the samthane coating solves the problem.

    I assume that the coating that New England Ropes uses on their coated dyneema serves equally well. I made and used a fixed eye in their dynaglide and it is holding as well as the Zing-It with samthane.
    Those who sacrifice freedom for safety, have neither.

    Do not dig your grave with your teeth. (Unknown)

  5. #5
    Knotty's Avatar
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    Pedro - When using slippery line, make a bowline with two turns.


    Animated instructions here: http://www.wonderhowto.com/how-to/vi...p-266002/view/
    Knotty
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  6. #6
    Senior Member
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    what knotty said.

    or use this one - just scroll down to below the animation and look at the blue cord with a stopper knot. ultimate safety

    http://www.animatedknots.com/bowline...matedknots.com

  7. #7
    Senior Member pedro's Avatar
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    Thank you one and all for the info!

  8. #8
    MacEntyre's Avatar
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    Knotty has the solution!

    There is another kind of secure bowline that I described to someone recently. We discovered it on a leader from a long line used by swordfishermen. If you make a loose overhand knot in the standing part, and use that as the "hole in the ground", let the "rabbit" come out of the hole, around the "tree" and back down through the "hole" then your bowline will be far more secure.

    - MacEntyre
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  9. #9
    GrizzlyAdams's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacEntyre View Post
    Knotty has the solution!

    There is another kind of secure bowline that I described to someone recently. We discovered it on a leader from a long line used by swordfishermen. If you make a loose overhand knot in the standing part, and use that as the "hole in the ground", let the "rabbit" come out of the hole, around the "tree" and back down through the "hole" then your bowline will be far more secure.

    - MacEntyre
    Mac I wonder, will it be untieable after being under load? Often when I use a bowline I'm doing so because it doesn't slip, and I can undo it later.

    thanks for the pointer though, I'm not always looking to untie it!

    Grizz

  10. #10
    MacEntyre's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GrizzlyAdams View Post
    Mac I wonder, will it be untieable after being under load?
    Under heavy load, normal bowlines are "knife knots."

    Generally, the weaker knots are the ones that will break because they constrict themselves at some point. A bowline has two such points.

    (Now all the people who have untied bowlines after using them under heavy load can tell me I'm off base. )

    - MacEntyre
    "We must, indeed, all hang together or, most assuredly, we shall all hang separately." - Ben Franklin
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