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  1. #21
    Senior Member TeeDee's Avatar
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    Found it here also.

    Lists a weight limit of 200 lb, but I'm not really sure that the weight limit applies in this case. The weight limit is more than likely computed based on a load from one direction in which case all of the forces acting on the cleats are in a direction to shear the cleats. The shearing load as you have used it is canceled out by running the line through the cleats in both directions and on opposing sides of the cleats. The only real forces on the cleat as used for the hammock suspension as you have, would be the compressional forces on the cleats and the torsional forces. The latter forces are working in concert, but they are limited by the fictional forces, I seriously doubt that the torsional forces would be sufficient to twist a cleat off. The frictional forces are probably not sufficient for that, the rope would more than likely slip first. Seems that the plastic should be able to handle those forces if it can handle up to 200 lb shearing forces on the cleats.

    With all of those cleats, the frictional forces, as you have demonstrated should be sufficient to hold the hammock, but I'm cautious enough that I would again add a slippery half hitch after bringing the rope back through the cleats.

    Great idea. I really, really like it. Now if I can find out how much one of those cleats weighs.

  2. #22
    slowhike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ALHikerGal View Post
    i believe their mini version is what backpackinglight.com sells w/ their guy line kit. they work well on small guy lines.
    don`t leave the CREATOR out of the creation!

  3. #23
    Senior Member Cuffs's Avatar
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    "The Rope Cleat" by Panther Marine Products... 3" long nylon, heavy duty (says the pkg) takes up to 3/8" line and rated for up to 200#. No weight listed on the pkg, will check that when I get home on Monday...
    Get busy living, or get busy dying.

  4. #24
    Senior Member FanaticFringer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ALHikerGal View Post
    I really like the ring buckle idea, but being that it takes getting the webbing precisely lined up upon itself... Id rather not bother with such tedium. I just posted the pics of the nylon (plastic) boat mooring cleat in my gallery (will try to get them over here...?)

    It was a really quick and easy setup and take down.

    I used the HH straps that came with the hammock, wrapped them around the tree as normal, threaded the hammock cord thru the webbing as usual, then just "wove" the cord thru the cleat and WA-LA. Up and hangin'.

    Will stay over nite this weekend and give it a real test.
    I would'nt give up on the ring/buckles just yet. I've never had an inch of slippage. Keep working at it and re-reading old posts. The cleat system might work for you but not near as easy IMO.
    "Every day above ground is a good day"

  5. #25
    Senior Member Cuffs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TeeDee View Post
    Found it here also.

    Lists a weight limit of 200 lb, but I'm not really sure that the weight limit applies in this case. The weight limit is more than likely computed based on a load from one direction in which case all of the forces acting on the cleats are in a direction to shear the cleats. The shearing load as you have used it is canceled out by running the line through the cleats in both directions and on opposing sides of the cleats. The only real forces on the cleat as used for the hammock suspension as you have, would be the compressional forces on the cleats and the torsional forces. The latter forces are working in concert, but they are limited by the fictional forces, I seriously doubt that the torsional forces would be sufficient to twist a cleat off. The frictional forces are probably not sufficient for that, the rope would more than likely slip first. Seems that the plastic should be able to handle those forces if it can handle up to 200 lb shearing forces on the cleats.

    With all of those cleats, the frictional forces, as you have demonstrated should be sufficient to hold the hammock, but I'm cautious enough that I would again add a slippery half hitch after bringing the rope back through the cleats.

    Great idea. I really, really like it. Now if I can find out how much one of those cleats weighs.
    Uhhhh, what? lol!

    I will weigh asap. but from just hand weight, very light! No chance of slippage, Ive tried!
    Get busy living, or get busy dying.

  6. #26
    Senior Member TeeDee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ALHikerGal View Post
    Uhhhh, what? lol!

    I will weigh asap. but from just hand weight, very light! No chance of slippage, Ive tried!
    Please excuse my verbosity - sometimes the physicist/mathematician just gets going and cannot stop

    The short version: I think it is safe to use just as you are doing.

    I have ordered a pair, well 2 pair, one for both hammocks, and plan on testing as soon as they arrive.

    I found a weight quote for a zig zag cleat by another manufacturer. It quoted the weight at 0.08 lb (1.28 oz). So the cleat may be heavier than a pair of rings by about 0.48 oz, but if it is even simpler to use than the rings, then that would be okay too. Let us know what your cleat weight comes to.

  7. #27
    Senior Member Cuffs's Avatar
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    OK...

    On my plain average digital postal scale, 1 cleat is 1.2 oz, but 2 weighs 2.5 oz. It doesnt measure to 100ths, so I think thats where the difference is coming in.

    Heading out for a 2 night hang with the cleats... wish me luck!
    Get busy living, or get busy dying.

  8. #28
    Senior Member Cuffs's Avatar
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    Ok... some thoughts on the cleats after 2 nights using them in 2 different locations/trees...

    1. Quick and easy.
    2. Easy to adjust.
    3. Parts dont get lost. I left the first run of lacing attached to the line while I moved my location for the 2nd night, it never budged.
    4. Still have to carry the straps (more parts)
    5. Couldnt really save any weight by cutting down the line, as it may be needed for trees that arent so close.

    I will use these instead of doing the figure 8 lashing that is recommended, I find it much quicker and simpler.

    I'll admit it... I have ordered the rings from REI; went to Harbor Freight and bought the straps...

    Im going to give both options a try before committing to one or the other. But my first experience with the rings was not fun (got to meet the earth up close and personal...) But I think that thanks to someones link for the knots, my larkhead will be replaced with another.
    Get busy living, or get busy dying.

  9. #29
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    I think these would work well for guy lines. I just use a taught line or run the line around the stake and back to the tarp and tie a slip knot.
    Is that too much to ask? Girls with frikkin' lasers on their heads?
    The hanger formly known as "hammock engineer".

  10. #30
    Senior Member TeeDee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ALHikerGal View Post
    Ok... some thoughts on the cleats after 2 nights using them in 2 different locations/trees...

    1. Quick and easy.
    2. Easy to adjust.
    3. Parts dont get lost. I left the first run of lacing attached to the line while I moved my location for the 2nd night, it never budged.
    4. Still have to carry the straps (more parts)
    5. Couldnt really save any weight by cutting down the line, as it may be needed for trees that arent so close.

    I will use these instead of doing the figure 8 lashing that is recommended, I find it much quicker and simpler.

    I'll admit it... I have ordered the rings from REI; went to Harbor Freight and bought the straps...

    Im going to give both options a try before committing to one or the other. But my first experience with the rings was not fun (got to meet the earth up close and personal...) But I think that thanks to someones link for the knots, my larkhead will be replaced with another.
    I think the zig zag cleats are good.

    The cleats are slightly heavier than the rings, but (there's always a but) you can use the spectra, or some other line, and less webbing. Webbing is heavier than the 1/8" spectra and the spectra equals most webbing for strength. Well the 1" webbing from Strapworks is much stronger, but also much, much heavier. For a given strength, the 1/8" spectra rope is lighter than webbing. Even 1/4" spectra is probably lighter than webbing. So from a weight perspective, the cleats with spectra may be about the same or slightly lighter than rings with equal strength webbing. I would still use the polyester webbing for tree huggers instead of the nylon that Hennessy supplies. The convenience of a biner with the webbing as used with the rings can still be obtained with the cleats - just clip the biner to loops on the ends of the tree huggers instead of threading the spectra through, then clip the spectra in the biner. No threading - quick setup and take down.

    For convenience, the rings and the cleats may be about equal. Although the cleats may actually win given the trouble people have had with slipping rings, myself included. ALHikerGal hasn't had any trouble with slippage and if the cleats had a history of slippage, they wouldn't be used in the marine industry. So that speaks volumes about their no-slip feature.

    With the rings you have to be more careful in setup with the knot used to attach the rings. You have to be more careful in the alignment of the webbing through the rings - very careful and/or else always tie a half hitch (slipped or not) after the rings.

    The cleats would appear to be more convenient than the rings in that respect: run through the zig zag, to the tree huggers, clip in the biner, back to the zig zag, pull tight and through the zig zag. You don't have any concern about attaching the cleat to the rope, no concern about aligning the rope before and after. The use of the cleat itself is obvious and simple. Their use in the hammock suspension, like everything else, is obvious in hindsight. It just takes someone like ALHikerGal with the great idea then it becomes obvious.

    The number of parts to keep track of may be the same in each case depending on how each is used.

    For beginners, I would think the cleats are probably simpler than the rings. No concern about how to attach the cleats as with the rings, which knot holds best or at all, etc . No concern about getting the webbing aligned and tying a slipped half hitch (well I would probably use the slipped half hitch with the cleats also). If the hammock was supplied with rope instead of webbing as the suspension, then the cleats would definitely be simpler for a beginner IMO.
    Last edited by TeeDee; 06-04-2007 at 16:25.

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