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  1. #1

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    Strength of knots vs sewing?

    I've been using the ring system and have ordered new high strength straps from strapworks. I've been using a bowline knot at the end of the strap that wraps around the tree but have been considering sewing a loop using a box stitch. I know the knot reduces the strength of the strap by at least 50%. How does that compare with a box stitched loop? I also know hat climbers use box stitched loops in much of their gear so I'm assuming it's pretty strong. I guess I've always had more confidence in a well tied knot as opposed to trusting someones sewing skills and a bit of polyester thread. I do like the neatness of the sewn loop which is really why I'm considering it at all.

    Any Opinions?

    Miguel

    PS I went hammocking with my wife and daughter (Two Claytor's JH and a Clark) this weekend and low and behold there was a guy on a site near us that was hanging in a Hennesy. It was my first time checking out a HH. I did like it but I'm still staying with my Claytor. We had an impromptu, albeit mini, hammock hanging gathering on the spot. It was lots of fun. He had a unique way of hanging his hammock. I took some pics which I'll post.

  2. #2
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    Something to consider here is the starting strength of line vs webbing. The spectra I use is about 1300-1500 lbs and the webbing I use is well over 2000 lbs. Even if the box strength takes it down by 50%, I am still over 1000 lbs of strength.

    I think that because of that it would be hard to beat webbing.

    On the spectra I try to use lashing or hitches instead of knots. It usually weakens the line less. I use a larkshead to the hammock and anchor hitches to the rings.
    Is that too much to ask? Girls with frikkin' lasers on their heads?
    The hanger formly known as "hammock engineer".

  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by hammock engineer View Post
    Something to consider here is the starting strength of line vs webbing. The spectra I use is about 1300-1500 lbs and the webbing I use is well over 2000 lbs. Even if the box strength takes it down by 50%, I am still over 1000 lbs of strength.

    I think that because of that it would be hard to beat webbing.

    On the spectra I try to use lashing or hitches instead of knots. It usually weakens the line less. I use a larkshead to the hammock and anchor hitches to the rings.
    That's exactly what I plan on using from the hammock to the rings. I bought the prussik cord from strapworks which is rated at 6000 lbs. I believe the straps are rated at 3500.

    Curious...the 6000 lb rating of the prussik cord was given to me by an employee at strapworks. Doesn't that seem awfully high for 6mm cord?

    Miguel
    Last edited by Miguel; 06-11-2007 at 10:06.

  4. #4
    6mm is HUGE and would not be considered prussic cord unless you are tying it around an enormous rope. the diameter of the prussic cord should be several, several sizes smaller than the cord it will be used on. for instance 6mm cord would almost be too big to be used as a prussic on climbing rope which is around 1/2"/10mm diam. generally the smaller in diameter the prussic cord is in relation to the other cord, the better it will work. also you want to use a softer rope for the prussic as well. as long as the prussic is not supporting your body weight, you can use tiny line.#18 braided nylon works great, and is about 1.5mm diameter. what are your prussics gonna be used for?...Brandon



    Quote Originally Posted by Miguel View Post
    That's exactly what I plan on using from the hammock to the rings. I bought the prussik cord from strapworks which is rated at 6000 lbs. I believe the straps are rated at 3500.

    Curious...the 6000 lb rating of the prussik cord was given to me by an employee at strapworks. Doesn't that seem awfully high for 6mm cord?

    Miguel

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by warbonnetguy View Post
    6mm is HUGE and would not be considered prussic cord unless you are tying it around an enormous rope. the diameter of the prussic cord should be several, several sizes smaller than the cord it will be used on. for instance 6mm cord would almost be too big to be used as a prussic on climbing rope which is around 1/2"/10mm diam. generally the smaller in diameter the prussic cord is in relation to the other cord, the better it will work. also you want to use a softer rope for the prussic as well. as long as the prussic is not supporting your body weight, you can use tiny line.#18 braided nylon works great, and is about 1.5mm diameter. what are your prussics gonna be used for?...Brandon
    I'm not using it as a prussik. I will attach it to the ends of my hammock and then to the rings a short distance out from the hammock. I will then run strap from the tree to the rings. I didn't want something too thin as I thought it might have a tendency to cut into the fabric of the hammock. It's still less than a 1/4" thick.

    Miguel

    Miguel

  6. #6
    New Member Anderz's Avatar
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    5900 lbs is quoted as mimimum tensile strength for 6 mm spectra in this link: http://www.machovec.com/rope/spectra_12strand.htm

  7. #7
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    Does anyone know a source of 1" spectra webbing? The only one that I found that was posted somewhere is 12mm or about 1/2". I want something better than the ed speer straps I am using now. Namely less stretch.
    Is that too much to ask? Girls with frikkin' lasers on their heads?
    The hanger formly known as "hammock engineer".

  8. #8
    Senior Member angrysparrow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hammock engineer View Post
    Does anyone know a source of 1" spectra webbing? The only one that I found that was posted somewhere is 12mm or about 1/2". I want something better than the ed speer straps I am using now. Namely less stretch.
    There is some Dyneema webbing here. But I've been really happy with the lack of stretch from the 1" Polyester webbing from Strapworks.
    I think that when the lies are all told and forgot the truth will be there yet. It dont move about from place to place and it dont change from time to time. You cant corrupt it any more than you can salt salt. - Cormac McCarthy

  9. #9
    why do you want 1" spectra? the 12 and 14mm from yates should be plenty strong, i've got one of the 14mm rabbit runners and it is rated to 3150 lbs in its weakest configuration.
    i have decided to offer my tree straps with the 14mm dyneema option...Brandon


    Quote Originally Posted by hammock engineer View Post
    Does anyone know a source of 1" spectra webbing? The only one that I found that was posted somewhere is 12mm or about 1/2". I want something better than the ed speer straps I am using now. Namely less stretch.

  10. #10
    Senior Member blackbishop351's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by warbonnetguy View Post
    why do you want 1" spectra? the 12 and 14mm from yates should be plenty strong, i've got one of the 14mm rabbit runners and it is rated to 3150 lbs in its weakest configuration.
    i have decided to offer my tree straps with the 14mm dyneema option...Brandon
    I'm guessing here, but I don't think the webbing strength is the issue - it's the width. Webbing that's too narrow doesn't protect the trees as well...that's why there are tree huggers and strap systems to begin with.
    "Physics is the only true science. All else is stamp collecting." - J. J. Thompson

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