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  1. #21
    Senior Member JerryW's Avatar
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    The only thing I've found is from Ron Bell at MLD(linked in my previous post). He is making a top quilt with Apex. This is from his website:

    "ClimaShield Apex
    New for 2010 - replaces Climashield XP. 5-10% more thermal efficiency than XP. APEX is the most thermally efficient synthetic insulation avialable. It drapes, compresses and recovers well does not requiring through quilting eliminating sewn thorugh cold spots. Many other synthetic insulations require some sewing of the insulation to the bag shell to prevent shifting or tearing or use of a heavy scrim stablization layer that can be stiff."

    Sounds promising.

    Jerry
    Last edited by JerryW; 12-30-2009 at 19:13. Reason: Listed the wrong Ron.
    The "Search" function is your friend!

  2. #22
    Mr. Arrowhead pgibson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbo_c View Post

    One detail the CS website does make clear is that the Apex is less drapable than the others.
    Jbo
    ??? where do you get that? From My perspective and including what Jerry posted above, that Ron has stated, not needing to be quilted, scrimed or other special work in assembly makes it seem as though it would be more durable. Just want to make sure I have not missed something some place.
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  3. #23
    BillyBob58's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbo_c View Post
    I didn't see the XP at all on the Climashield web site and all of the descriptions seem fuzzy to me. I can't really distinguish any of them based on their descriptions except that the Apex is the most thermally efficient.

    Jbo
    Dang, the web site has changed since I was last there. That is irritating. Thru-Hiker has specs on XP and Combat.

    http://thru-hiker.com/materials/insulation.php



    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    White

    Product ID: MG165 Category: Insulation
    Climashield XP
    First Quality continuous filament insulation. This synthetic insulation is a fine choice for large panel sleeping bags and quilts because it can be quilted using the simple 'yarn loops' method described by Ray Jardine in Beyond Backpacking. XP has a stiffer hand than the HL, making it more suitable for large panel items like sleeping bags or for apparel where drape is not of primary concern.

    Sold by the continuous linear yard by 60 inches wide. For example, entering a 2 in the quantity box gets you a continuous piece 72 inches by the roll width of 60 inches.

    2.5 oz/sq yd. loft=.6 " nominal. clo=.82/oz. Total CLO : 2.5 oz * 0.82 clo/oz = 2.1 60 inch roll width. Price: $9.95


    5 oz/sq yd. loft=1.2 " nominal. clo=.82/oz. Total CLO : 5.0 oz * 0.82 clo/oz = 4.1
    60 inch roll width. Price: $15.95



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    White

    Product ID: MG165 Category: Insulation
    Climashield Combat
    First Quality continuous filament insulation. Combat is a Berry Compliant version of XP. At 3.7 osy, its CLO value is 3.7* 0.78= 2.9

    Sold by the continuous linear yard by 60 inches wide. For example, entering a 2 in the quantity box gets you a continuous piece 72 inches by the roll width of 60 inches.

    3.7 oz/sq yd. loft =.9 " nominal. clo=.78/oz. 60 inch roll width. Price: $10.95



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    White

    Product ID: MG113 Category: Insulation
    800+ Fill Power White Canadian Goose Down
    Thru-Hiker's down is independently tested at 800 fill power or greater. 800+ fill power means that one ounce of down will occupy at least 800 cubic inches.
    We package the down to make transfer from the bag to your project easy and stress free.

    Sold per 3 ounces. For example, entering "1" in the quantity field buys you three ounces 800+ fill, while entering "3" in the quantity field buys you 9 ounces. Please note that orders are packaged in bags ranging from 3 to 7.5 oz, depending on quantity ordered, not in individual 3 oz bags.

    Price: $25.95



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    White

    Product ID: MG124 Category: Insulation
    Primaloft Sport
    1st Quality Primaloft Sport Insulation
    Three weights available:
    1.8 oz/sq yd (60 g/sqm). loft =0.4" (1.0 cm) nominal
    3 oz/sq yd (100 g/sqm). loft =.6" (1.5 cm) nominal
    6 oz/sq yd (200 g/sqm). loft = 1.2" (3.0 cm) nominal

    CLO/oz = 0.79

    1st Quality. Sold by the continuous linear yard, 60" roll width. For example, buying 1 gets you a piece 1 yard by 60", buying 3 gets you a piece 3 yards by 60"


    1.8 oz $8.99 3.0 oz $11.88 6.0 oz $15.95



    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    Order By Phone: 415 462 1745 | Contact Us
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  4. #24
    Senior Member
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    The reference was not "durability", but "drapability" - ie ability to conform to compound curves.

    I went back to the site and was unable to find the reference so I removed the credit to the Climashield site from my post, but I did read that somewhere in my ramblings last night.

    Jbo

  5. #25
    Senior Member
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    Got it. Nevermind.
    Last edited by jbo_c; 12-30-2009 at 17:07. Reason: I'm a dope.

  6. #26
    Here is an explanation.

    Here is another.

    This explanation is the explanation I use for a reference.

    I saw this comment:
    David Wills, Ron Bell is the only one I've seen thats gotten any so far. His site says 5-10% better efficiency than XP. That puts it somewhere between .86 and .90 clo/oz. Sounds like a winner. He replaced 5 and 2.5 oz XP with 4.8 and 2.4 oz Apex. I would love to find some under 2 oz for jacket, vest and pants. ref: thread

    I have this question: I can expect to sew Climashield Apex only at the edges?

    . . .
    Last edited by ConnieD; 12-30-2009 at 17:40.

  7. #27
    Captn's Avatar
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    If you look in those posts you'll see a couple by me I'm afraid ...

    I made a number of quilts out of XP and it's predecessors, spending more than a couple of nights using them.

    There are a lot of factors in keeping warm, hydration, when did you eat last, how cold were you before you went to bed, humidity, etc.

    When you hold all of these things constant, I developed the following formula for determining the temperature rating of a quilt made from a synthetic insulation:

    Temp=60-(CLO*8.2)

    Now this formula is specific to the way I sleep, which is a bit on the warm side ... you should change the (8.2) factor based on how you sleep.

    So, for me, a 2.5 ounce per square yard XP quilt (single layer) with a momentum shell, given a reasonable relative humidity (it's not clammy out), sleeping in my skivvies, will be:

    60-(2 * 8.2) = 43.6 degrees

    This was based on ground sleeping with adequate insulation under you.

    Warning ... your mileage may vary!
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  8. #28
    Senior Member
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    OK. Captn. So with the 5oz xp you would expect to get down to just below 30? Can you confirm that from experience?

    Also, does that include UQ or is that for a TQ only?

    Thanks for the formula. That will help.

    Jbo

  9. #29
    Captn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbo_c View Post
    OK. Captn. So with the 5oz xp you would expect to get down to just below 30? Can you confirm that from experience?

    Also, does that include UQ or is that for a TQ only?

    Thanks for the formula. That will help.

    Jbo
    I've used 5 ounces down to about 30 degrees comfortably.

    I was a groundling, however ... I've never hung with Climashield.

    My favorite quilt had 5 ounces from the stomach down, and 1 layer, or 2.5 ounces on the top .... and I wore my hooded jacket to bed every night. Very comfy ... it's long worn out by now.
    Many a good hanging prevents a bad marriage
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  10. #30
    Tim Marshall over at a BPL thread said he thought I would have 15-20 F quilt using 2 layers Climashield Combat and cuben on both sides of the quilt with 1/4 width triangle breathable fabric in one corner for inflation and packing back in the bottom of my pack.

    I am experienced, and, I want a quilt so I do not compress insulation under me and I can use it on the ground or with a hammock, either way.

    Do you think this is realistic?

    Should I, instead, mock up a quilt and make a temperature rating? Then, sew?
    Last edited by ConnieD; 12-30-2009 at 22:18.

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