View Poll Results: Do you cook from your hammock/tarp

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  • Yes!

    61 35.06%
  • Heck No

    44 25.29%
  • Sometimes

    69 39.66%
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  1. #111
    MacEntyre's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BillyBob58 View Post
    In fact, that is my very point and the reason I posted the article...
    Well, duh, I must've been reading every other word... I got it now! Sorry, Billy!

    - MacEntyre
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  2. #112
    Member CoyoteWanderer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mbiraman View Post
    A person should prepare themselves when they go to the woods. They should take precautions according to existing wisdom and to give themselves a feeling of comfort. But people seem to get more concerned about the possibility of sh*t happening than the numbers warrant. Using your own numbers there's only one person killed/yr by a bear. I wonder how many people died eating a chocolate bar.
    Yeah, I definitely agree here. The horror stories often serve to heighten fears about a relatively low risk. I mean, if you look at the statistics for americans/canadians killed by gunfire and had the same reaction to that as we do to bear encounters, everyone would have a kevlar vest.

    I have a reasonable amount of experience and instruction, and stories still serve to cause a level of worry that is probably not proportionate to the risk.

    I think that mbiraman's comments about worrying about other things are right on the money as well. I know there are many more hikers, skiers, etc dead from exposure, getting lost, getting hurt, or going where they weren't prepared to go, than will ever be killed in bear attacks.

    (Lower mainland mountains are bad for this - people treat it as taking a walk in their back yard, running shoes, shorts, t-shirt, water bottle and snickers bar, 4 hours in from the trail head, 2 hour drive from town, weather questionable, alone, no jacket, likely with a cell phone (no coverage). Completely dependent on their being other people around if something goes wrong. )

  3. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by gargoyle View Post
    Moose attack more people than do bears and wolves. (Scroll down to aggression)

    what that has to do with cooking under a tarp..????

    now back to our regularly sheduled thread!
    As part of the digression... sorry. But every time bear safety comes up, it seems to head off in many interesting tangents.

    I think situational tactics vary a lot - I would not be surprised if there weren't variations in black bear subspecies behavior. There are a lot of subspecies, and the California blacks seem to show less violent behavior than those in other regions. Food supply for bears in California may not be as difficult as it is elsewhere particularly where their territory overlaps with the brown bear. Our bears don't really compete for food. Too many tourists just give it to them.

  4. #114
    Member CoyoteWanderer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gargoyle View Post
    what that has to do with cooking under a tarp..????

    now back to our regularly sheduled thread!
    whoops. ummm....... my bad? Sorry.

    You guys and gals are all so friendly, I find when I have time to drop by here, I seem to get chatty.

  5. #115
    Senior Member BillyBob58's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mbiraman View Post
    I'm not sure we're not saying the same thing but with a bit different emphasis . I'm not that good at conversation from a keyboard.
    A person should prepare themselves when they go to the woods. They should take precautions according to existing wisdom and to give themselves a feeling of comfort. But people seem to get more concerned about the possibility of sh*t happening than the numbers warrant. Using your own numbers there's only one person killed/yr by a bear. I wonder how many people died eating a chocolate bar. Its just about giving the situation what it deserves and not more because that will get in the way of you attuning to where you are which is different than having read what you should do.. When i say "not paying attention" i mean when you spend time in the back country you develop a different sense of things than when you started with your list of precautions etc,, not that you illuminate those precautions necessarily but you do them from a different perspective (experience), that gives you a different focus or attention. Having read about things is different than being there. One of my jobs , many yrs ago, was with the parks branch. I lived and worked in the back country for months at a time . We dealt with black bears almost every other day from a distance or three feet away. Black bears are predictable most of the time. You act accordingly and watch for any changes in their behavior . They have been known to be predators, Some native tribes have spoke of this also. Their are always exceptions to the rule as with anything. Thats what paying attention is about.
    Excellent points! I agree with you!

    But on the subject of choking on chocolate bars or being attacked by dogs or muggers or being in a car wreck, compared to the odds of a hiker being attacked by a bear: I wonder if every body always considers the number of dog attacks ( or candy bar choking or whatever) broken down by the amount of exposure?

    IOW, look at even your average back country camper. How often is he or she eating a candy bar, walking near a potentially dangerous dog, riding in a car, etc? Now, how often during the year is that average hiker deep in the wilderness walking within smell distance of a bear with bear attractant strapped to his back or stashed near his bed? No way to know, but I dare to guess that the average hiker will have food in his mouth that he could potentially choke on a thousand times more often than he will be within striking distance of a hungry or angry bear. Same thing with being near a vicious dog while out jogging, or riding in a car. Even most of us backpackers are way, way more likely to be in those dangerous situations than in danger from a bear.

    Now, include the general population in that. All the millions who are eating a candy bar or driving in a car every day, often more than once a day, but 99% of whom will never go and sleep, maybe alone, deep into bear country. Of course the statistics will show I am 1000 times more likely to be attacked by a dog, die in a car crash or even have a heart attack while posting this. Because I probably am AT LEAST 1000 times more likely to be exposed to these other dangers. Maybe a million times more exposed to those other dangers!

    So, it seems the argument is oft made that, sense I am so much more likely to die from whatever than I am from a bear attack, well then a bear attack is nothing to really worry about, statistically speaking. Wouldn't the same logic dictate that as I am so much more likely to be killed by a dog than falling into a crevasse or killed in an avalanche, therefore when I am climbing on a glacier I should not really worry about being killed from some danger on the ice? I think when I am actually out there on that glacier, it's the dangers on the ice that should be of most concern, not how much more likely I am to die in a car crash during my lifetime.

    Which is not to say "don't go on the glacier". But do consider what precautions should be taken.

    OK, I am rambling incoherently again! sorry!

  6. #116
    Senior Member BillyBob58's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacEntyre View Post
    Well, duh, I must've been reading every other word... I got it now! Sorry, Billy!

    - MacEntyre
    No problemo! I just wanted to let it be known that I agree with you!

  7. #117
    Senior Member BillyBob58's Avatar
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    BTW, my closest call with an animal, as far as I know anyway, was with a Mama Moose! I was hiking down a steep narrow mtn trail in northern Utah. I was coming around a curve in th trail. The mtn dropped steeply to my left and rose steeply to my right, I could not see very far around the bend. All of a sudden, maybe 10 or 20 yards in front of me, two moose laying across the trail! A Mama looking away from me, and her baby, back bone to back bone with Mama, looking me right in the eyes, twitching his floppy ears!

    I backed up until I couldn't see them anymore, then took off straight down the mtn through the woods, off the trail. I found that to be a time of tight sphincter! If I had not been looking straight ahead, it would not have been hard to have tripped over them. Which probably would not have worked out well for me.

    Or, maybe the closest call was while trout fishing in Oak Creek Canyon in AZ. As I stepped over two boulders, a rattle snake started buzzing directly between my legs! The biggest danger there was my near heart attack. The snake just made a run for it.

    I have never even seen a bear while backpacking, only their tracks.

    And what does this have to do with cooking under a tarp? NADA!

  8. #118
    Senior Member Roadtorque's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BillyBob58 View Post
    BTW, my closest call with an animal, as far as I know anyway, was with a Mama Moose! I was hiking down a steep narrow mtn trail in northern Utah. I was coming around a curve in th trail. The mtn dropped steeply to my left and rose steeply to my right, I could not see very far around the bend. All of a sudden, maybe 10 or 20 yards in front of me, two moose laying across the trail! A Mama looking away from me, and her baby, back bone to back bone with Mama, looking me right in the eyes, twitching his floppy ears!

    I backed up until I couldn't see them anymore, then took off straight down the mtn through the woods, off the trail. I found that to be a time of tight sphincter! If I had not been looking straight ahead, it would not have been hard to have tripped over them. Which probably would not have worked out well for me.

    Or, maybe the closest call was while trout fishing in Oak Creek Canyon in AZ. As I stepped over two boulders, a rattle snake started buzzing directly between my legs! The biggest danger there was my near heart attack. The snake just made a run for it.

    I have never even seen a bear while backpacking, only their tracks.

    And what does this have to do with cooking under a tarp? NADA!
    Must have been the same moose that got me on a narrow trail in Utah. Those are some big, beautiful, and bad tempered animals. Those darn rattlesnakes are one of my biggest worries when I hike. My scariest moment was when I realized I was being tracked by a cougar on a hike in Utah

    Edit:
    Just read my post and it seems like I was trying to one-up your story, I'm not. Just saying Ive had similar scary experiences and way more than bears it's moose, rattlesnakes, and cougars that I'm scared of encountering.
    Last edited by Roadtorque; 01-04-2010 at 23:34.

  9. #119
    Senior Member G.L.P.'s Avatar
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    I don't worry about bears much...fire a round in the air and they go running...

    it's the mountain Lions i worry about...you won't hear them till it's too late
    It puts the Underquilt on it's hammock ... It does this whenever it gets cold

  10. #120
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    i have a more "deepest part of my mind" fear/awareness of the total suckage that would be a rattlesnake bite than running into a bear.

    however getting eaten would be pretty much the worst

    i tend to err on the side of caution regarding food smells and my sleep area

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