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  1. #21
    Senior Member Just Jeff's Avatar
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    Not disappointing in this case...just don't compress your insulation and you'll be warm.

    Or are you saying that adding insulation makes you colder?
    “Republics are created by the virtue, public spirit, and intelligence of the citizens. They fall when the wise are banished from the public councils because they dare to be honest, and the profligate are rewarded because they flatter the people, in order to betray them.” ~Judge Joseph Story

    - My site: http://www.tothewoods.net/
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    IMPOSSIBLE JUST TAKES LONGER

  2. #22
    BillyBob58's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dutch View Post
    For me it is all abot comfort. I use UQ because they are comfortable. I made my winter UQ so that I would not need a pad to suppliment. Once you have to lay on a pad why not just use 2 pads or a thicker pad. You already have to deal with the shifting pad and condensation. Pads are very good insulation IMO and I don't think anything going to get through 2 1/2" pads. Plus they are very light and can be packed on the outside of your pack. Not to mention if you ever have to go to ground. So I go in one direction or another. Once you wind up on a pad anyhow yuo lost most of the advantage of the quilt.
    I agree with that basic premise. Because I was taking just enough pad to get by one night in case I had to go to ground, and because I took an SPE just in case my SuperShelter(SS) was not enough, I almost decided one trip to take just the pads/SPE. In the end, I took the SS and pad, because if at all possible I preferred to sleep in the SS. But adding another torso pad and going with the pads only would have been more weight efficient if I was going to carry some pad and SPE anyway. Plus more bombproof. But, there was the possibility for at least one night where I wouldn't be warm enough in just the SS, and a pad was a lot of insurance to have just in case.

    On the question that this thread asks, "should we use ccf pads" with our down UQs, it should be fairly easy to find the answer during this cold snap. Any one with a 3 season quilt or basic HHSS, set it up and take a nap at 5 or 10*F. Most of us will not be comfortable. Then add a relatively thin pad, say a Ridgerest. Many of us will then be either warm enough or even toasty warm, based at least on my experience. Then try just the Ridgerest pad by itself, I think most of us will not be warm enough much below 25 or 30 with it alone. But for any individual, a quick back yard test should tell the tale.

    Maybe not so easy to determine if a quilt plenty warm enough at 10*F will be any better by adding a pad above that temp. I wouldn't be surprised if it was no better or even worse, as it might interfere with the fit of the UQ or something. But I suspect that in general, if you are already not warm enough, adding a pad can only help. Look up Ed Speer's recent post trying to use the Pea Pod at (a windy?) 8*F. He was feeling the cold on his back, a pad under the hammock helped, a pad moved into the hammock got him to toasty.
    For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory that is to be revealed to us....that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now.
    Romans 8:18,21-22

  3. #23
    Knotty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roadtorque View Post
    If you feel like you need a pad...you should have bought a lower rated UQ. If you feel like you need to go to bed with more than one layer of cloths on you should have bought a better bag. I have done enough winter camping and experimentation that no one will ever convince me (without data) that more insulating components piled together, such as a pad and an uq, can take you to a lower temp. In my experience; Two bags, one put inside the other, each rated at 50 degree will not be as warm as one zero degree bag. Two pads, each with an R value of 3 stacked on top of each other will not be as warm as one pad with an R value of 6.
    I agree with you half way. The first half. The best way to stay warm is to use gear designed for the temps you'll be in. That's why I bought a Winter Nest instead of a Nest.

    Gotta (sort of) disagree with you about the more insulating components piled together part. More insulation is more insulation. The problem you're running into is that by putting one bag inside another you are compressing the insulation and thus derating it. If you could maintain the loft of both bags it would be warmer than just one. With under quilts, certain combinations can be used that don't cause compression and increase warmth.
    Knotty
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  4. #24
    Senior Member Just Jeff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KerMegan View Post
    and the distinguishing phrase that separates
    theory from reality--"all else being equal..."
    Quote Originally Posted by Just Jeff View Post
    Not disappointing in this case...just don't compress your insulation and you'll be warm.

    Or are you saying that adding insulation makes you colder?
    Sorry...misread your post and thought you said "disappointing" instead of "distinguishing." Still, the only "all else" in this case is not mis-using the insulation...for example by compressing it or wetting it out.

    But regardless, as long as people are safe and comfortable in the woods it doesn't really matter how. If Grizz sleeps naked in his winter-rated bag and MacEntyre wears clothes and piles on three summer quilts...I'm sure we can all still hang together. I'm gonna hang far away from Grizz, but we'll be close enough to sit around the fire, at least.
    “Republics are created by the virtue, public spirit, and intelligence of the citizens. They fall when the wise are banished from the public councils because they dare to be honest, and the profligate are rewarded because they flatter the people, in order to betray them.” ~Judge Joseph Story

    - My site: http://www.tothewoods.net/
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    IMPOSSIBLE JUST TAKES LONGER

  5. #25
    HappyCamper's Avatar
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    My assumption had always been that you are warmer with pad + Q but since I've been experimenting with the "less is more" with clothing in keeping warm in hammock, it started me wondering if using a pad with UQ s the most effective. From what I'm reading here, the pad will indeed take me down into lower temps with my UQ.

    Can't wait to read more of Mac's testing with Insultex. But crap, I sold mine thinking I'd have to use it for clothing or something! lol.
    I intend to live forever, or die trying. -- Groucho Marx (1890 - 1977)

  6. #26
    Dutch's Avatar
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    If Grizz sleeps naked in his winter-rated bag
    That's disgusting, delete that thought from my mind.
    Peace Dutch
    GA>ME 2003


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  7. #27
    MacEntyre's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HappyCamper View Post
    ...sold mine thinking I'd have to use it for clothing or something! lol.
    I can get you some more...
    "We must, indeed, all hang together or, most assuredly, we shall all hang separately." - Ben Franklin
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  8. #28
    Doctari's Avatar
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    I must add that I use my pad as BACK UP only! it is added insulation for the really cold stuff, temps under 25ish. I'm just not very comfortable sleeping on a pad in the hammock.
    And the 2nd underquilt is for when I'm pulling a sled.

    Getting a underquilt rated to the temps you expect should do the job. BUT, if you get into a range your quilt (or pad, or whatever you use) can not handle, add whatever insulation you can.

    Campsite location can really "save your bacon" if the temps drop below what you are ready for. At Mt rogers, the temps have varied widely due to where the hanger is. Last year it was from 6 - 14 degrees within about a 5 acre area.
    When you have a backpack on, no matter where you are, you’re home.
    PAIN is INEVITABLE. MISERY is OPTIONAL.

  9. #29
    MacEntyre's Avatar
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    I guess I'm in the minority, but my experience has been very good extending the HH SS, the KAQ and the PeaPod to be significantly warmer than they are rated.

    - MacEntyre
    "We must, indeed, all hang together or, most assuredly, we shall all hang separately." - Ben Franklin
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  10. #30
    PuckerFactor's Avatar
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    Well, this is hardly proof, but I extended my newly made (and tested, and survived!) space blanket+Soft&White quilt with a 3/4quilt I made from a stadium blanket (prolly 70D cordura with a fleece liner) I found somewhere.
    And I also plan on using the space blanket quilt to extend my down quilt I'm working on, so you're not entirely in the minority, Mac.

    Acer
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    Formerly known as Acercanto, my trail name is MacGuyver to some, and Pucker Factor to others.

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