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  1. #21
    Senior Member cavscout's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snipen View Post
    Just a thought. I use those same straps for my electric cords at work and they don't last to long before they won't hold anymore. Of course they get a lot more use on the job site then on a tarp.
    Unless your setting up your tarp everyday, that is
    Add in that some velcros will totally loose there fastening properties when they get wet also. I tried to replace the velcro on my watch band and almost the minute it was soaked the watch fell off.

    How about a daisy chain of small loops. The first loop secured to the RL would loop under the tarp and back up to the RL, then the next loop would Pass thru the first loop and before looping under the tarp and back up to the ridge line...."rinse and repeat" all the way down the RL ending with a single toggle or prussic or whatever. Then to unfurl the tarp just release the first loop and the rest should fall out on their own.

  2. #22
    Senior Member opie's Avatar
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    I just worked one of these under running water and it didnt loose its ability to work.
    I am not a gram weenie. , But Im starting to see the merits!!!

    Kris' Splicing

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  3. #23
    Senior Member TeeDee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tomsawyer222 View Post
    ok but any serious gram weenie would not use the full ridgeline as it weighs much more than two seperate cords with no prussics or extra tarp attachment biners or S biners.....
    I thought so also for a loooooooong time. Then I sat down and really analyzed how much I need for 2 separate lines and how much I need for a single ridge line. Turns out that I don't need as much additional for the single ridge line cord as I thought.

    I'll base this analysis on a tree span of 20' since that is the maximum I will use and my JRB 11'x10' tarp with 10' ridge. I use the 10' riidge for the analysis since I can use either the 10' or 11' ridge and the 10' represents to maximum cord needed.

    1. 2 separate lines.
      First off I need enough on each end of the tarp to reach the trees. At first glance the amount seems to be (20' - 10')/2 == 5' plus enough to go around the trees and tie off. With tree diameter of 12" that adds another 3' 2" plus whatever is needed to tie off. The amount needed to tie off is subjective, but I'll allow 3'. So this would seem to indicate that I'll need 5' + 3' 2" + 3' == 11' 2" on each end of the tarp. Actually, the ends will need more than this since the above assumes that the tarp will be exactly centered between the trees. This cannot always be guaranteed or desired. The tarp may need to be adjusted as much as 1' or 2' closer to one tree or the other, so allow for 2' off center. This 2' would be added to both end lines. Thus, I need 2 lines of 13' 2" for a total of 26' 4" of guy line cord for 2 separate lines. This will have to be adjusted if you hang from trees with a larger diameter or greater span. So far I have ignored the line needed to attach each line to the tarp ridge tie outs. I'll allow 6" for each attachment knot. That gives a grand total of 27' 4".

      If you need to off-center the tarp by more than 2', add the additional needed line to each end line, an additional 1' of line for each additional 1' off-center beyond the 2' I have allowed for.
    2. single ridge line.
      First off, I need 20' to span from one tree to the other. Then I need to add to this the amount to go around one tree, 12" diameter, 3' 2", plus whatever is needed to make a small 1" loop on the end of the rope used to toggle back onto the line. Say 4" of line which gives me a running total of 23' 6". You will notice I don't need as much on this end as for the separate lines since I don't need to tie a knot to secure. For the other end I will need the same amount that the single lines need on both ends to go around the tree and secure, 3' 2" + 3'. So I have a total for a single ridge line of 29' 8". Notice that with the single ridge line I don't need to add cord to account for an off-center tarp. I need to add enough cord for 2 Prussics. I'll allow 12" of cord for each Prussic, so I have another 2' of cord for a grand total of 31' 8"


    Totals:

    Separate cords: 27' 4" minimum for up to a 2' off-center tarp
    Single ridge line cord: 31' 8" - off center tarp does not need any extra.

    Thus, the single ridge line cord uses 4' 4" more cord.

    Using 2 mm Zing-It that amounts to 0.1 oz

    Using 2 mm Dynaglide that amounts to 0.06 oz

    I haven't accounted for the toggles needed for the single ridge line cord, since we don't carry them, but simply pick them up off the ground as needed and return them to the ground when done with them.

    The above is the bare minimum for each set-up. If you use a small Figure 9 to secure the single ridge line add another 12" for a Prussic and the weight of the Figure 9. If you use small Figure 9s for the separate ridge cords, add the weight of 2 small Figure 9s and maybe 2 Prussics to attach them.

    0.1 oz or 0.06 oz for the convenience of a single ridge line (at least I regard the single ridge line to be a convenience over the separate cords ) is a simple trade off for me.

    Added Note; The shorter the tarp ridge, the smaller the advantage of the separate ridge cords. For example for an 8' tarp ridge, the separate cord advantage drops to 2' 4" less cord and the weight advantage drops to well below 0.1 oz. By the same token, the longer the tarp ridge, the greater the separate cord advantage. With a 12' tarp ridge the separate cord advantage is 6' 4" less cord and correspondingly less weight. Of course with a 12' tarp ridge, you have to have a greater tree span so a longer tarp ridge isn't much of an advantage.
    Last edited by TeeDee; 02-22-2010 at 19:16.
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  4. #24
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    teedee that seems very convincing and complex.

    however...

    i have 2, 8 foot sections of line for my ridgeline. that equals 16'
    if i wanted a full length ridgeline i would have to add 10' to my total, giving me 26'.

    i pick the trees according to my line, not the line according to the trees

  5. #25
    in it for the naps oldgringo's Avatar
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    I'll prolly just stick 5 or 6 short lengths of mason twine at right angles through the RL. A figure 8 knot buried in the RL should keep each one in place, and not derate the RL very much.
    Dave

    http://www.uark.edu/misc/xtimber/rna/pattonsbluff.html

    It has always been my private conviction that any man who pits his intelligence against a fish and loses has it coming.
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  6. #26
    Senior Member opie's Avatar
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    Yes, having several short sections of line to tie is the obvious choice.

    Im thinking though in times of haste, like you needing to get your tarp up cause youre getting wet... speed is the key.

    I like the SC idea too, but that has a higher weight penalty than the velcro ties.
    I am not a gram weenie. , But Im starting to see the merits!!!

    Kris' Splicing

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  7. #27
    in it for the naps oldgringo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by opie View Post
    Yes, having several short sections of line to tie is the obvious choice.

    Im thinking though in times of haste, like you needing to get your tarp up cause youre getting wet... speed is the key.
    If you use a shoelace knot, one little jerk...
    Dave

    http://www.uark.edu/misc/xtimber/rna/pattonsbluff.html

    It has always been my private conviction that any man who pits his intelligence against a fish and loses has it coming.
    John Steinbeck

  8. #28
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    The system using Velcro attached to the ridge line (or any other system) to reef the tarp only appears to work with a ridge line over the tarp you cannot use this if the ridge line is under the tarp. Is part of the rationality of a ridge line over the tarp that you can keep the ridge line separate and hang the tarp to a ridge line already installed to trees therefore letting you sue the same ridge line for many different tarps or perhaps even to use at lunch break to suspend say a lightweight poncho if you did not want to get your full tarp out.

    If you want to reef your tarp but not use skins how about using lengths of shock cord loops that push back on the ridge line and are easily pulled over a furled up tarp as it is packed away.
    Bazza

  9. #29
    Senior Member cavscout's Avatar
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    You could still use these methods with an Under Tarp RL, but it's probably more convenient with Over Tarp RL.

  10. #30
    Senior Member opie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bazza2154 View Post
    The system using Velcro attached to the ridge line (or any other system) to reef the tarp only appears to work with a ridge line over the tarp you cannot use this if the ridge line is under the tarp. Is part of the rationality of a ridge line over the tarp that you can keep the ridge line separate and hang the tarp to a ridge line already installed to trees therefore letting you sue the same ridge line for many different tarps or perhaps even to use at lunch break to suspend say a lightweight poncho if you did not want to get your full tarp out.

    If you want to reef your tarp but not use skins how about using lengths of shock cord loops that push back on the ridge line and are easily pulled over a furled up tarp as it is packed away.
    These will work either over or under.

    The shock cord is an excellent idea as well. Kinda like the 6" or so loops with the plastic ball on the end. They come at a stiffer weight penalty, thats all.
    I am not a gram weenie. , But Im starting to see the merits!!!

    Kris' Splicing

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