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  1. #1

    All confused now...

    I know I'll need some insulation for my HH for anything other than summer use. Looking at their site, the newer 'Super Shelter' is an open-cell foam insulation in silnylon.

    Here, almost everything I read tells me not to use a waterproof material for an underquilt. And almost everything I read says to use either down or a synthetic lofted insulation. One reason given on the HH site is that is lofted insulation is used, it has to be quilted to keep it in place.

    Which leads me to a couple of questions.
    Does anyone have the HH underquilt and how does it perform?
    Should I use a silnylon material if I do make an underquilt?
    Has anyone, rather than stitch the insulation in place, used some type of a
    spray adhesive to keep the Polarguard from shifting?
    Do the 'V' shaped cuts in the KAQ pattern give enough curvature to the underquilt that it fits snug or has anyone tinkered with this pattern for a tighter fit? (two small cuts/side rather than one bigger one, etc.)

    It's almost time to set up that old, grandmother-inherited sewing machine and have at it!

    Tom

  2. #2
    Senior Member lvleph's Avatar
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    Underquilts are not suppose to fit snug. The air gap helps keep you warm. If it is snug, cold spots form.

    The super shelter is not an underquilt. It is a combination of a closed cell foam pad and an undercover. I have heard good things about the super shelter, but have never used one.

  3. #3
    Senior Member Just Jeff's Avatar
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    There's a lot of detail on how insulation systems work on these forums, at the yahoo group, and at whiteblaze.net. Here's a quick write-up that isn't too technical...might help you understand what's going on and why some systems work better than others under certain conditions.

    But the conditions are important...there isn't a single right answer b/c some work very well in cold dry but not in cool humid, some are adjustable over a wider variety of conditions, etc. So figure out what conditions you'll be hiking in most often and pick one that fits your style.

    Quote Originally Posted by lvleph View Post
    Underquilts are not suppose to fit snug. The air gap helps keep you warm. If it is snug, cold spots form.

    The super shelter is not an underquilt. It is a combination of a closed cell foam pad and an undercover. I have heard good things about the super shelter, but have never used one.
    Sort of. Underquilts are supposed to be snugged up to the bottom of the hammock, but not so snug that they're compressed. Too loose, and you get air gaps between the underquilt and hammock...air gaps make you cold. But too tight, and it compresses the loft...the loft is what stores the heat so compression is bad. (I think you were calling loft the air gaps.)

    The SuperShelter doesn't have a closed cell pad...an OCF pad provides the loft and a silnylon shell provides the windblock.

    But as you and BillyBob said, some folks like the SuperShelter and some folks don't.
    “Republics are created by the virtue, public spirit, and intelligence of the citizens. They fall when the wise are banished from the public councils because they dare to be honest, and the profligate are rewarded because they flatter the people, in order to betray them.” ~Judge Joseph Story

    - My site: http://www.tothewoods.net/
    - Designer, Jeff's Gear Hammock / Pack Cover by JRB

    IMPOSSIBLE JUST TAKES LONGER

  4. #4
    if the two shell pieces are the right proportion to eachother, you can pull the thing as tight as you want, and the lower piece will still stay loose, and won't compress the insul no matter how tightly the uq is pulled. thats how i made mine, and i think thats how ed's snug fit works too. i think youngblood calls that a "differientally cut shell" on ed's site.


    Quote Originally Posted by Just Jeff View Post
    Too loose, and you get air gaps between the underquilt and hammock...air gaps make you cold. But too tight, and it compresses the loft...the loft is what stores the heat so compression is bad. (I think you were calling loft the air gaps.)

  5. #5
    BillyBob58's Avatar
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    HHSS pros cons

    There are several of us here and at Whiteblaze that have come to appreciate the SS, though it doesn't seem very impressive to look at. I find it quite useful for the weight and cost. You also get considerable additional protection from wind and rain.

    Some others here are quite unimpressed with them. I think experience with them really helps get the full potential from them. Especially learning the tricks re: adding insulation either from coats or vests/whatever that you are not wearing to bed. And/or adding the optional torso kidney pads. Or using a trash bag by itself or with a space blanket to get a whole lot of extra loft for miniscule extra weight. There are several threads where it is all debated. Here is one:

    http://www.hammockforums.net/forum/showthread.php?t=804

    For me, the most basic SS sytem (pad, undercover) is certainly good into the 40s, with the suggested space blanket maybe the 30s. Easily augmented to lower from there. I got some test reports from 18* to 38*, and what I needed to add below 38*, somewhere on here or on WB.

  6. #6
    Senior Member lvleph's Avatar
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    I think they have great potential, however I have never used one.

  7. #7
    i have tried the spray adhesive, didn,'t go that route, but there night be something there. i have found though, that if the insul is continuous filament like the climashield and polarguard, that simply stitching the insul to the edge of the shell does pretty well at stabalizing the insul, no quilt loops needed. i read somewhere that you could do that with continuous filament. my uq is not that old, but it seems to be working fine like that. i roll it instead of stuff it though.


    has anyone experienced problems with insulation that is only stabilized at the edges, or does everyone use quilt loops?

    you can use sil for an uq, i do.

    you do want a completly snug fit, big air pockets release hot air right through the ripstop, up through your hammock from below, and if the sleeping bag doesn't cover the whole air pocket, the heat just passes right through the hammock fabric (which is not insulative) and is lost.

  8. #8
    slowhike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by warbonnetguy View Post
    .

    has anyone experienced problems with insulation that is only stabilized at the edges, or does everyone use quilt loops?
    i haven't tried it yet, but i've often thought that w/ the sheet type insulation, being sewn around the edges should be all that's really needed.
    i don't see any way it's going to come loose & shift.
    don`t leave the CREATOR out of the creation!

  9. #9
    Senior Member TeeDee's Avatar
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    Wiggy's bag are all Lamilite which is continuous filament and he only "attaches" the insulation at the "edges" - the shell material just "floats" on the insulation. He advocates that anything penetrating the insulation partially defeats the insulation. Not his exact words, just what I have distilled from reading his material.

  10. #10
    Senior Member gstepclassical's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TeeDee View Post
    Wiggy's bag are all Lamilite which is continuous filament and he only "attaches" the insulation at the "edges" - the shell material just "floats" on the insulation. He advocates that anything penetrating the insulation partially defeats the insulation. Not his exact words, just what I have distilled from reading his material.
    I don't know if you have worked with climashield but I would be willing to bet a rather large sum of money that using quilting loops in the manner described on the KAQ site would result in no measurable degradation of the insulation. Using loops helps to keep all four layers, and in the case of my wifes UQ five layers, in place. Climashield is pretty tough in one direction but feels as though it will pull apart in the other direction pretty easily. At any rate I would be very careful when putting the UQ into a stuff sack.
    When it goes over their heads, it really doesn't matter how high it is.

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