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  1. #21
    Senior Member FireFlyburns's Avatar
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    IMHO, I would rather have more clothing to fall back on than a warmer (and heavier) quilt/sleeping bag. If you need to move when the weather takes a turn and drops below zero degrees you wont be able to wear your zero degree sleeping bag. For me it's about versatility. You basically can only sleep in a sleeping bag, but you can sleep and walk with winter clothing.
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  2. #22
    slowhike's Avatar
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    I've been extremely happy w/ the cold weather system I've been using the last couple years.
    It incorporates clothing into sleep system. It allows me to enjoy camp time w/o being cold, & those clothing items are a very functional part of my sleep system, cutting bulk & weight there.

    Clothing layers help make a very flexible sleep system too, allowing for a wide range of temps.
    Besides, I hate changing into & out of different clothes when it's cold
    Not to mention that sleeping in insulated clothing helps w/ those unexpected drafts when you turn over & makes getting up for a nature call a lot less painful

    When it's pretty cold I wear a wicking base layer covered by synthetic outer pants & shirt that usually stays in place the duration of the trip. Of course, my trips are less than 3 or 4 days.

    To go on top of that I use a synthetic "Cocoon", full zip, hooded jacket & synthetic insulated, full side zip pants from Montbell.
    Of course, like Food said, taking care of the extremities (hands, feet & head) is important & requires less torso insulation.
    A few variables her & there, but that's my basic working plan.

    One thing I may change into though is dry socks.
    don`t leave the CREATOR out of the creation!

  3. #23
    Senior Member Just Jeff's Avatar
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    I'm considering the Peak XV down jacket from Eddie Bauer. At well under $300 and a mention on the website of -5F rest stops, it's priced more competitively than similar models from other manufacturers. I've emailed them asking for baffle height and rated temp...I doubt they'll give me a rated temp but at least the baffle height will help me compare it against the Nunatak Kobuk that's double the price. Of course, the Peak XV is 35 oz and the Kobuk is 18 oz plus snap-on hood. That's about a full pound lighter...is that worth $300?

    I've seen the EB First Ascent gear in the stores and I was pretty impressed. The down sweater had the options I would have paid for from Montbell when I got the ThermaWrap...and it was much cheaper.

    There's a store down the road that carries the First Ascent gear...maybe I'll swing by tomorrow to see if they have this jacket.
    “Republics are created by the virtue, public spirit, and intelligence of the citizens. They fall when the wise are banished from the public councils because they dare to be honest, and the profligate are rewarded because they flatter the people, in order to betray them.” ~Judge Joseph Story

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  4. #24
    BillyBob58's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Just Jeff View Post
    ..................................
    So what do y'all think? Would you rather carry minimal worn insulation and a thicker TQ, or more worn insulation and a thinner TQ?
    Yes! In other words, I have approached it from both ways, and it just depends. There are so many ways to skin these cold cats. On almost all trips of the last 2-3 years, I have taken my BMW Cocoon PG jacket(14 oz) and pants(8 oz). Inside a HHSS, (only the net on top, no TC), I have used this alone down to slightly below 50*F. And been OK. I think I would have been cold at 40 or 45. So that's what, 20 or 25* worth of protection while sleeping? So, about like a 50 or 55 degree TQ? Of course, there is no reason why I couldn't use thicker worn insulation.

    I think Fiddleback primarily takes the worn insulation approach.

    I figure I am going to carry these jackets anyway if the weather is at all cold, so why not use them in my sleep system? Kind of the reverse of the No Sniv approach, where you leave your jacket behind. In this case, take the worn insulation ( because I will any way) and a thinner top quilt. Or, depending on expected lows, maybe no quilt at all. I think that, if fleece is also part of my clothing system(or if a synthetic BAG is used) that it will also help- even if just a little- on the bottom, maybe enough to allow a slightly lighter UQ.

    I know, there is that "sleep naked ( or nearly) is warmer" school of thought. But I like to layer at least a bit.

    I have used this layering approach( with the addition of a down vest) most successfully with the Pea Pod, into the 20s. No TQ, after much debate. While standing/sitting around camp I wore the hooded jacket and pants and sometimes also the vest. We spent a good amount of time around the campfire, we were not breaking camp every day. So, going to bed early really did not fit.( Some of us with not as much worn insulation were a little cold unless they did go to bed. ) Then, when it was finally bed time, the insulated pants stayed on, while the jacket and vest provided extra top layering and draft blockage inside the Pea Pod. It did this job just adequately, with not much warmth to spare. I didn't really need a hood, as the pod serves this function pretty well.

    A No Sniv or Stealth would have done this job better, with more luxury and versatility. And might have been even warmer around camp. But, then I would have been more concerned with keeping the quilt dry if I had to wear it in a storm or while hiking(The jacket was PG in a WPB shell). Plus, I would have needed a separate sleeping and maybe some sleeves.

    I have not taken the No Sniv approach, simply because I don't have one. If I did, I'm sure I would like that approach. I use an alternative, layering gear I already have. But as it is now, I tend to use worn insulation- in the form of jackets and pants- to beef up TQs not thick enough for conditions.

    I guess it mainly comes down to: are you going to hit the sack soon after you stop hiking? If so, then i guess you don't need much worn insulation and it can all be handled by a thicker TQ. But I'm not sure zi see the downside of thicker clothing, available if and when you need it, which is then used as part of your sleep system- with a lighter quilt- at least on the coldest nights.

    But who knows which is best? Totally different approaches will still work.
    For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory that is to be revealed to us....that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now.
    Romans 8:18,21-22

  5. #25
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    jeff have you ever seen this article? some interesting reading...

    http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-...hread_id=17263

  6. #26
    MedicineMan's Avatar
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    and with the Peak XV you get a Napolean pocket, with the Nunatak you dont.

  7. #27
    Senior Member Just Jeff's Avatar
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    I hadn't seen that, but it's definitely a good article. I'd like to do some NOLS courses at some point...it would be interesting to see how they compare to military training. Thanks for posting the link.
    “Republics are created by the virtue, public spirit, and intelligence of the citizens. They fall when the wise are banished from the public councils because they dare to be honest, and the profligate are rewarded because they flatter the people, in order to betray them.” ~Judge Joseph Story

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  8. #28
    Senior Member opie984's Avatar
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    I use a light sleeping bag (40*) mainly because of space concerns in my pack and a pad. So I sleep with socks, long-johns, jeans, long sleeve shirt, fleece hoodie. If it is down in the thirties I add a fleece liner to my sleeping bag and carry my balaclava into the hammock in case my face gets too cold during the night.

    I have no trouble with this sleeping set-up and it is a perfect balance between weight and pack space. It is kinda surprising that I can sleep with all that on considering it is undershorts only @ home

  9. #29
    SoundWitness's Avatar
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    Great thread/discussion. My winter set up consists of the following. Did pretty well during the NJ Winter Hang in January. Temps bottomed out around 17 - 18 degrees, I believe.

    Terramar Therma TX bottoms
    REI Poly 100% Fleece Pants
    Terramar Therma TX tops
    Patagonia Capilene 2 Zipneck Baselayer long sleeves
    Mountain Hardware Polartec fleece
    Possumdown Socks
    Full poly/fleece Balaclava

    Had to shed my Montbell U.L Thermawrap Jacket and my JRB sleeves over my feet because I started to sweat to death.

    Had my WBBB with a JRB Mt. Washington 4, Pauls BBO, and my Campmor zero degree down bag.
    "Surround yourself with the best people you can find, delegate authority, and don't interfere."- RONALD REAGAN

    "There is new life in the soil for every man. There is healing in the trees for tired minds and for our overburdened spirits, there is strength in the hills, if only we will lift up our eyes. Remember that nature is your great restorer." - CALVIN COOLIDGE




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  10. #30

    ἑταῖροι
    Hetairoi's Avatar
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    at Mt Rogers this year I had a Speer Peapod and a Golite Ultra 20 topquilt. I also had a JRB Winter Nest inside the peapod underneath me. I was wearing lightweight merino pants with wool socks and JRB sleeves over my feet. I had a down vest and a long sleeve shirt on with a JRB hood on my head.

    I do not enjoy being cold.

    Low that I heard was 9F and I was too warm. Probably could have taken the Nest out, but I wasn't wet. I did have some condensation near my mouth, but so did just about everyone else.

    I really like the JRB wearable quilts, especially the sleeves and hood. I've used the Winter Nest as a top quilt and as a poncho (even got a jacket that I can put over it). On the Pinhoti hang in Feb I used it as an under quilt on a switchback and I really liked how much coverage it gave me.

    But ... that's a lot of down, even compressed. It's not really heavy, but for most trips I take it's more than I need and takes up space. I'm going to end up using a smaller uq with a small pad under the legs because it's lighter and fits the weather here better. I can always wear the ultra 20 over me if it's that cold and I need to be out of the hammock.

    Lessons I learned for next winter:
    • either get good winter boots or bring lots of toasty toes

    • wear loose socks to sleep

    • it's really not THAT cold

    • you don't really need to bring food to the hangouts

    • and most of all DON'T FORGET YOUR $@#%#&* JACKET!
    Live by the sword, die by the arrow

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