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  1. #1
    BillyBob58's Avatar
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    How did those cleats work out?

    There was a lot of buzz for a while about these nylon cleats. Several people ordered them.

    http://www.cabelas.com/prod-1/0001551018030a.shtml

    Then after several days of use, AlHikerGal had one of the cleats bend. Then Gregg3 had another brand from Lowes or HD break. Soon after that, the thread petered out.

    What was the final score on these cleats? Did the users decided they were not strong enough for hanging?

  2. #2
    Senior Member Cuffs's Avatar
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    Hey BB!

    While at the time the cleats were a great thing, so simple to use, they can take the heat, figuratively. I used the nylon version from Academy Sports, and the 2 middle cleats bent slightly after extended use.

    Now, also consider that I hang high and put alot of tension on my HH, not sure if that was a factor, or just having to hold up my booty all night!

    Ironically, I have recently bought all the gear (but have yet to use) for the ring buckle support system...
    Get busy living, or get busy dying.

  3. #3
    Senior Member FreeTheWeasel's Avatar
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    I've been using the cleats successfully for several trips now. The most recent was a trip to the Superior Hiking Trail for 4.5 days (four nights of hanging). I have seen a slight twist in the cleat posts in the middle but nothing that appears to be significant.

    I've probably put on about 10 to 15 nights on them. I like them. I haven't been dropped on my head yet and I find them to be very helpful.

    FreeTheWeasel

  4. #4
    BillyBob58's Avatar
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    How heavy

    Thanks, AHG and FTW. I'm about 205 lbs, usually get down to about 195 before a trip. I wonder if these cleats would handle this much weight?

  5. #5
    Senior Member Cuffs's Avatar
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    I dont have the pkg near, but I think they were rated for 200# each. Youd have to check with the Math monsters on this site, but by "my" math, you are dividing your weight by the 2 cleats... I dont know... Im over 150#... and had the bending of the cleats... (gawd, did I just admit that?!?!)
    Get busy living, or get busy dying.

  6. #6
    GrizzlyAdams's Avatar
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    math monsters, inc.

    Quote Originally Posted by ALHikerGal View Post
    I dont have the pkg near, but I think they were rated for 200# each. Youd have to check with the Math monsters on this site, but by "my" math, you are dividing your weight by the 2 cleats... I dont know... Im over 150#... and had the bending of the cleats... (gawd, did I just admit that?!?!)
    *** scary voice from behind the bedroom closet door ****
    try this experiment. Get a plastic gallon jug full of milk, thread a cord through the handle, and tie one end at body trunk level to something that won't move. Try to pull the cord so taut that there is no sag in the line due to the jug of milk. No, not a little sag, NO sag. Compare the effort you're expending trying to keep that line taut with the effort needed to just lift the gallon jug.

    This is a lesson that will illustrate that the angle of the line between hammock and tree matters when considering how much force is on that line (and by extension, on the cleat). The flatter the angle, the more the force.
    If the angle is roughly such that with a person in the hammock the cord rises 1" for every 2" you get closer to the tree, then the force on one cleat is roughly your (full) body weight plus about 10%. This angle is pretty close to the rule of thumb that I've seen used in the discussions.

    **** slinking back into the closet ****

  7. #7
    Senior Member Ewker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ALHikerGal View Post
    Im over 150#... and had the bending of the cleats... (gawd, did I just admit that?!?!)
    don't worry about it, you look good

  8. #8
    Senior Member angrysparrow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GrizzlyAdams View Post
    If the angle is roughly such that with a person in the hammock the cord rises 1" for every 2" you get closer to the tree, then the force on one cleat is roughly your (full) body weight plus about 10%. This angle is pretty close to the rule of thumb that I've seen used in the discussions.
    Griz is right about this one. While the cleats may work fine, they don't come with ANY 'insurance strength'. I can't speak for everyone, but if I'm gonna suspend my body weight off the ground over a potentially hazardous drop, I want there to be no doubts about the suspension's ability to hold it. At a 200# rating, the cleats just don't leave enough room for error for my peace of mind.
    I think that when the lies are all told and forgot the truth will be there yet. It dont move about from place to place and it dont change from time to time. You cant corrupt it any more than you can salt salt. - Cormac McCarthy

  9. #9
    Senior Member TeeDee's Avatar
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    I've been using the cleats since ALHikerGal first mentioned them.

    She is right there is some SLIGHT bending of the posts in the middle of the cleat. You have to look real close to see it. But as I wrote I have been using them continuously. They bent slightly right after I started using them and have not bent any more since then. If I take them off the hammock and leave them off for about an hour or so, they return to their original shape.

    Have they held? With no problem.

    Do I think they will continue to hold - yes - no problem.

    Do I like the cleats - yes. They are the easiest method yet to hang and tension the hammock and I pull the suspension ropes real tight.

    Do I plan on continuing to use the cleats? Most definitely yes.

    Comparing the weight of use to ring buckles using the AL SMC descender rings, the whole setup is about the same to slightly less. The cleats weigh more than the rings, but the rope I use (2.8 mm Spyderline) is a whole lot lighter than webbing, even the Harbor Freight polyester strap webbing. I use the harbor Freight webbing for tree huggers, about 4'. Don't really know how much the CC buckles weigh, but I doubt they can be lighter than the ring buckles, so even the Cc buckles are about the same weight overall.

  10. #10
    Senior Member TeeDee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GrizzlyAdams View Post
    *** scary voice from behind the bedroom closet door ****
    try this experiment. Get a plastic gallon jug full of milk, thread a cord through the handle, and tie one end at body trunk level to something that won't move. Try to pull the cord so taut that there is no sag in the line due to the jug of milk. No, not a little sag, NO sag. Compare the effort you're expending trying to keep that line taut with the effort needed to just lift the gallon jug.
    Yes, but to get NO SAG in the rope, you have to exert an infinite force. Now you are one heck of a strong person if you can exert even a small fraction of that amount of force. Practically speaking, you would never get anywhere near zero since the force rises exponentially and you break whatever rope you are using long before you got anywhere near no sag.

    So the illustration is really of only academic interest and no real practical value since most people will stop pulling when they can physically exert no more force. The force that most people can exert would not be enough to to bring the angle below about 20 degrees. Maybe Schwarzenneger could get down to 15 deg, but I doubt it. At 20 deg the forces can be handled quite readily by the cleat.

    Quote Originally Posted by GrizzlyAdams View Post
    This is a lesson that will illustrate that the angle of the line between hammock and tree matters when considering how much force is on that line (and by extension, on the cleat). The flatter the angle, the more the force.
    Agreed, but as I pointed out above, nobody can exert enough force to pull the line sufficiently level to be a problem.

    Quote Originally Posted by GrizzlyAdams View Post
    If the angle is roughly such that with a person in the hammock the cord rises 1" for every 2" you get closer to the tree, then the force on one cleat is roughly your (full) body weight plus about 10%. This angle is pretty close to the rule of thumb that I've seen used in the discussions.

    **** slinking back into the closet ****
    Yes, but you are missing an essential point, you can pull the rope to that angle when not in the hammock, but as soon as you get in the hammock, the angle is going to increase dramatically. A 30 deg angle is going to be about as high as most people will be able to accomplish with the hammock occupied - that would mean the rope and whatever means you are using of securing the rope is going to be bearing at most your weight, forget the 10% extra.

    I have found that in my measurements, after pulling the suspension rope to about a 20 deg angle, it increases to about 30 deg or more when I am in the hammock. Now if you weigh more than I do, 180 lbs, then if you can also pull that 20 deg empty angle, then you are also going to increase the angle beyond 30 deg when you get in the hammock. Any angle greater than 30 deg, decreases the force on the rope and securing device to less than your weight.

    So the scary voice from the closet is just that a scary voice from the closet and nothing more.

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