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  1. #11
    BillyBob58's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FanaticFringer View Post
    Did you use your pad/underquilt during testing?
    I tried, but they melted.

  2. #12
    Senior Member stoikurt's Avatar
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    I use the Speer polypro webbing. Before I got the biners I just passed the webbing through it's own loop on the end and snugged it up to the tree. After just a few used I noticed that the loop and some of the webbing that passes through it was getting a little fuzzy. Not enough to be a problem, yet, but showing obvious wear after a few uses that continuous use like that might causes enough wear for failure. The webbing is a little abrasive against itself. I've not noticed any increased wear since using the biners...and it is a lot quicker the use.
    Stoikurt
    "Work to Live...Don't Live to Work!"

  3. #13
    Senior Member Redtail's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stoikurt View Post
    I use the Speer polypro webbing. Before I got the biners I just passed the webbing through it's own loop on the end and snugged it up to the tree. After just a few used I noticed that the loop and some of the webbing that passes through it was getting a little fuzzy. Not enough to be a problem, yet, but showing obvious wear after a few uses that continuous use like that might causes enough wear for failure. The webbing is a little abrasive against itself. I've not noticed any increased wear since using the biners...and it is a lot quicker the use.
    Maybe a sleeve of a slicker fabric like nylon on the loop would prevent or reduce the abrasion. Or even a wrap of duct tape where the webbing passes through, it's pretty smooth.

  4. #14
    Senior Member angrysparrow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redtail View Post
    Maybe a sleeve of a slicker fabric like nylon on the loop would prevent or reduce the abrasion. Or even a wrap of duct tape where the webbing passes through, it's pretty smooth.
    Something like that would probably work fine. But, when a biner adds functionality and ease of setup, it's a minimum amount of weight to carry. Especially something like the CAMP Nano Wire biners at 1oz each.
    I think that when the lies are all told and forgot the truth will be there yet. It dont move about from place to place and it dont change from time to time. You cant corrupt it any more than you can salt salt. - Cormac McCarthy

  5. #15
    Senior Member Redtail's Avatar
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    Ease of setup is a good point. It's easier to just clip on a biner than to thread a long strap through the loop every time. I'm not a gram counter, I'm just too cheap to spend the extra $14 on biners if I don't really need them.

  6. #16
    Senior Member stoikurt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redtail View Post
    Ease of setup is a good point. It's easier to just clip on a biner than to thread a long strap through the loop every time. I'm not a gram counter, I'm just too cheap to spend the extra $14 on biners if I don't really need them.
    NOt only would you have to thread the webbing through the loop each time, you would have to thread it through the rings or Cinch Buckles each time, too.
    Stoikurt
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  7. #17
    slowhike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stoikurt View Post
    NOt only would you have to thread the webbing through the loop each time, you would have to thread it through the rings or Cinch Buckles each time, too.
    both points are so true (stoikurt & angrysparrow).
    after using the biners on my last trip, i was thinking... man, this is so easy.
    and stoikurt said, unless your straps are wet & you want to store them separately in your pack, there's no need to un-thread them from the rings or buckles.
    don`t leave the CREATOR out of the creation!

  8. #18
    BillyBob58's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stoikurt View Post
    I use the Speer polypro webbing. Before I got the biners I just passed the webbing through it's own loop on the end and snugged it up to the tree. After just a few used I noticed that the loop and some of the webbing that passes through it was getting a little fuzzy. Not enough to be a problem, yet, but showing obvious wear after a few uses that continuous use like that might causes enough wear for failure. The webbing is a little abrasive against itself. I've not noticed any increased wear since using the biners...and it is a lot quicker the use.

    Angrysparrow quote:
    The loop method you use will work fine, although there are two reasons that many use biners instead. 1) Many of us never remove the webbing from the buckle, to save time upon setup and takedown. Simply loop the webbing around the tree and clip the biner, then pull the webbing tight through the buckle. 2) I don't recall who, but someone on this forum had a problem with the webbing fusing to itself where it passed through the loop.
    Actually, the loop that "worked fine" I was referring to was threading a loop thru the buckle, instead of just a single layer of webbing, which greatly facilitates loosening. Maybe "loop" was not the correct term for that, I'm not sure. But your points about the other loop at the tree ( used without biner) are well taken. After one brief hang, I'm back to biners. First of all, I had not considered the significant convenience factor of not having to disconnect web from buckle at breakdown and re threading thru the buckle at each camp set up. That is significant, especially if done at each end.

    But if that's not enough, after the first brief hang, when I went to pull the webbing out of the webbing loop, it was very resistant to coming loose! It appeared to be slightly stuck together. After I got it loose, it had somewhat of a "burned" appearance! Fused? Wow. I hope it is not weakened and unsafe? Anyway, back to biners. I'm going to weigh my biners and may have to order those Nanos. My biners weigh 1.5 ozs, appx.

    This is a great set up, no doubt. A big improvement in speed of set up and ease of tightening. But I haven't decided yet which system ( buckle or cleat or cleat on footend/buckle at head end) I'm going to use on my Pacific Northwest hike in 3 weeks. Mainly because of weight. Darn it, TeeDee had done a nice precise weight breakdown of all of the various systems, but it's gone now! I'm concerned a little about weight adding up, especially if I don't have the nerve to commit and cut my excess rope. I don't know how much 8 ft per side of HH 1600lb spectra would weigh( ultralight ASym Explorer). And though concerned about the weight of the webbing ( Speer 15ft per side appx 4 ozs per side ) I guess I should remember that I ordered plenty of webbing out of concern for tree size where I am going.

    But if I just use my stock treehuggers and cleat, I add 1 oz per side over stock. I think that's a great trade off of added weight for convenience and speed. But of course, they are not exactly overengineered compared to the weight capacity of the competition.

    If I cut off 8 ft of rope and ditch the tree huggers, I don't think I will save more than about 3 ozs per side, guesstimate. Y'all correct me if I've got that wrong. I'll call the buckle and cleat a wash, roughly 1oz each.

    Add back 4 oz of webbing, + 1 oz of biner. So, 5 oz more minus 3 oz saved, net 2 oz per side or 4 oz total extra to use the webbing instead of the cleat. I guess that's not too bad considering the extra 5 feet per side( 15 feet webbing vs. 10 feet rope) of webbing I will gain to deal with large trees.

    Trouble is, I don't quite have the b*lls to cut my rope off, burning that bridge! That adds about 3 or 4 more ozs to the total.

    Oh, the ultralight stuggle. Comfort, convenience and speed vs weight!

  9. #19
    Senior Member angrysparrow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BillyBob58 View Post
    Trouble is, I don't quite have the b*lls to cut my rope off, burning that bridge! That adds about 3 or 4 more ozs to the total.
    Truly, the cinch buckles and their typical accessories aren't the lightest method. We all have to decide for ourselves if using them is worth the convenience or not. For me, the extra weight is worth it.

    Why do you have to be brave to cut the rope? Or, why 'cut' it at all? Simply untie the stock spectra and tie the buckles on with some other cord like Spyderline. Then, if you don't like it or want to change, you can simply go back and tie the spectra back on. The HH knots aren't some mystical mysterious knot beyond the realm of mortal comprehension.
    I think that when the lies are all told and forgot the truth will be there yet. It dont move about from place to place and it dont change from time to time. You cant corrupt it any more than you can salt salt. - Cormac McCarthy

  10. #20
    BillyBob58's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by angrysparrow View Post
    Truly, the cinch buckles and their typical accessories aren't the lightest method. We all have to decide for ourselves if using them is worth the convenience or not. For me, the extra weight is worth it.

    Why do you have to be brave to cut the rope? Or, why 'cut' it at all? Simply untie the stock spectra and tie the buckles on with some other cord like Spyderline. Then, if you don't like it or want to change, you can simply go back and tie the spectra back on. The HH knots aren't some mystical mysterious knot beyond the realm of mortal comprehension.
    Well, taking a knife to the original equip seems like a no going back situation. Hence my cowardice. Not really, I guess, but I'd want to be pretty sure of no desire to go back to the rope.

    Unless, of course, as you say- just untie. As for untieing, OK, I probably need to go that route. I guess I will have to start by cutting open the nylon cover, and seeing what there is to undo. And of course, a new order and more shipping to get a few feet of spyderline.

    Although, I guess if I'm going to cut open the knot cover and try to untie/retie a knot there, there is no need to worry about replacing the rope. So I could just cut the rope past the point of attachment to the buckle, and go in and untie later if I needed to add a new rope. Then again, I bet this spectra and spiderline is expensive, so I might be better of ordering just a few feet and doing a replace.
    Last edited by BillyBob58; 08-09-2007 at 16:53.

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