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  1. #1
    New Member terceiro's Avatar
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    When whipping slips (first try w/ trapezoidal asym)

    So I thought I'd try to make a trapezoidal asym, based on Hammock Engineer's design. His directions for whipping were a little spotty (as in "follow what Arkwater did"), and so I tried my best to follow those directions and make them work for a trapezoid (which, I think, is in this case a parallelogram, isn't it?).

    Let me state for the record that I was using some fabric I'd used before. Successfully. And yet: oh my.

    I pitched the thing and then, fifteen seconds later: wham! I'm on the ground wondering what happened. I can see now that the whipping simply didn't hold, and the supports slid off the end.

    I whipped that end again, tighter this time. As tight as I could physically make it. Watching it closely as I sat down, I saw the support slide up to the whipping and then the whipping start to slip. Quickly, I stood up.

    Thinking that... well, I'm not sure what I was thinking, but I tied an overhand knot in the hammock instead of my whipping and sat down.

    Wham! The *other* side slipped. That was the third slipped whipping in a row on the same hammock. The fabric was a known quantity, and was (is) successful on another hammock. The cord for whipping also has a proven record. What doesn't have a proven record is Arkwater's whipping technique. I'm officially unsold. And sore.

    I tried a straight gather-whip (non-W) and everything held, but that trapezoidal asym is undoubtedly uncomfortable. Maybe it's simply too small for my 6'2" frame, or maybe my new (old) whipping technique is wrong for an asym hammock.

    I have learned a lesson, however. I hadn't ever really thought about my wrapping technique, but now I've got the bruises to show that they're actually surprisingly important (more experienced hangers may wisely nod their heads here).

    Now as far as my trapezoidal asym goes: what should I do?

  2. #2
    just curious, what about your hammock is trapezoidal? is the shape of the opened bed fabric rectangle or non-rectangle? or is it just the offset lateral tension points that make it trapezoidal (like on a hh)?


    Quote Originally Posted by terceiro View Post
    So I thought I'd try to make a trapezoidal asym, based on Hammock Engineer's design. His directions for whipping were a little spotty (as in "follow what Arkwater did"), and so I tried my best to follow those directions and make them work for a trapezoid (which, I think, is in this case a parallelogram, isn't it?).

    Let me state for the record that I was using some fabric I'd used before. Successfully. And yet: oh my.

    I pitched the thing and then, fifteen seconds later: wham! I'm on the ground wondering what happened. I can see now that the whipping simply didn't hold, and the supports slid off the end.

    I whipped that end again, tighter this time. As tight as I could physically make it. Watching it closely as I sat down, I saw the support slide up to the whipping and then the whipping start to slip. Quickly, I stood up.

    Thinking that... well, I'm not sure what I was thinking, but I tied an overhand knot in the hammock instead of my whipping and sat down.

    Wham! The *other* side slipped. That was the third slipped whipping in a row on the same hammock. The fabric was a known quantity, and was (is) successful on another hammock. The cord for whipping also has a proven record. What doesn't have a proven record is Arkwater's whipping technique. I'm officially unsold. And sore.

    I tried a straight gather-whip (non-W) and everything held, but that trapezoidal asym is undoubtedly uncomfortable. Maybe it's simply too small for my 6'2" frame, or maybe my new (old) whipping technique is wrong for an asym hammock.

    I have learned a lesson, however. I hadn't ever really thought about my wrapping technique, but now I've got the bruises to show that they're actually surprisingly important (more experienced hangers may wisely nod their heads here).

    Now as far as my trapezoidal asym goes: what should I do?

  3. #3
    Senior Member Grinder's Avatar
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    I am one of the few here that don't like whipping either. Mainly because of experience similar to yours.

    You are especially vulnerable on a test hammock, because the edges and ends are not sewed. That seam provides a stop for the whipping.

    Take a look at a double sheet bend knot for your tie off.
    http://www.tollesburysc.co.uk/Knots/Sheet_bend.htm

    A second advantage is that it is fast and easier to redo the fold as you try to get the set up "just right".

    HTH
    Tom
    Last edited by Grinder; 08-26-2007 at 08:25. Reason: spelling

  4. #4
    slowhike's Avatar
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    terceiro... how did you attach the hammock support to the hammock?
    if you use a lark's head as shown here http://www.tothewoods.net/HomemadeHammock3.html
    the support should grip the hammock so tightly that it shouldn't slip. more weight, tighter grip.
    the whipping isn't intended to keep the support from sliding off the end of the hammock. it just keeps the hammock gathered the way you want it.
    don`t leave the CREATOR out of the creation!

  5. #5
    New Member terceiro's Avatar
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    I did use a lark's head, but I just used 1/2" climbing rope rather than a smaller-diameter cord. I think the larger rope might have had less "bite" and caused the slip.

    I'm still fiddling with the trapezoidal shape, but I fear that following the HE plan (linked above) might be too short for a 6'2" guy like me. At least, I haven't found it comfortable yet. I need to try with some more sag. Maybe tonight I'll give it another shot and report back.

  6. #6
    Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by terceiro View Post
    I did use a lark's head, but I just used 1/2" climbing rope rather than a smaller-diameter cord. I think the larger rope might have had less "bite" and caused the slip.
    I bet that's the problem. I remember from a rescue class I took once that rope diameter is extremely important in using friction knots. If I remember correctly, when constructing a climbing system you need to have prussik cords that are no greater than 75% of the standing line diameter. Now hammocking isn't climbing, but if this holds true, then using 12mm (1/2") rope means that your hammock fabric can't compress to anything less than 16mm or you've got a problem.

  7. #7
    New Member terceiro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nails View Post
    when constructing a climbing system you need to have prussik cords that are no greater than 75% of the standing line diameter. Now hammocking isn't climbing, but if this holds true, then using 12mm (1/2") rope means that your hammock fabric can't compress to anything less than 16mm or you've got a problem.
    Now that you say that, it seems completely obvious. Good info; thanks.
    uva uvam vivendo varia fit

  8. #8
    slowhike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nails View Post
    I bet that's the problem. I remember from a rescue class I took once that rope diameter is extremely important in using friction knots. If I remember correctly, when constructing a climbing system you need to have prussik cords that are no greater than 75% of the standing line diameter. Now hammocking isn't climbing, but if this holds true, then using 12mm (1/2") rope means that your hammock fabric can't compress to anything less than 16mm or you've got a problem.
    that makes perfect sense. i didn't think to ask about the rope size.
    don`t leave the CREATOR out of the creation!

  9. #9
    New Member terceiro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by teblum View Post
    Take a look at a double sheet bend knot for your tie off.
    http://www.tollesburysc.co.uk/Knots/Sheet_bend.htm

    A second advantage is that it is fast and easier to redo the fold as you try to get the set up "just right".
    The double sheet bend is not a knot I'd considered, but I gave it a shot this afternoon and it seems surprisingly secure. I think I might give it an overnight try soon.

    It's so fast and simple to tie, if it's strong enough, I think it might make me re-think either the rings or the buckle (neither of which I've tried).

    Thanks!
    uva uvam vivendo varia fit

  10. #10
    sheetbends rock. they are THE knot as far as hammocks go. i still use tree straps and rope, and tie the rope to the straps with a sheetbend variation. i can tie the knot in like 2-3 seconds. a single sheetbend with a bight (which sometimes has slipped, never more than an inch or so though) can be tied in one second, (no exageration).

    with a sheetbend, finish the last step with a bight instead of a single strand, and in the morning when it's time to untie, one hard yank on the free end and the knot falls apart.

    my advice is to learn the fastest/easiest knot suspension before you try an adjustable suspension, otherwise the adjustable suspension will seem much faster and better, by comparison, than it really is.




    Quote Originally Posted by terceiro View Post
    The double sheet bend is not a knot I'd considered, but I gave it a shot this afternoon and it seems surprisingly secure. I think I might give it an overnight try soon.

    It's so fast and simple to tie, if it's strong enough, I think it might make me re-think either the rings or the buckle (neither of which I've tried).

    Thanks!

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